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Thread: Looking for 0.8% IBA

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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    northern virginia
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    Looking for 0.8% IBA

    I have done extensive textbook reading and each author recommends using 0.8% IBA to attempt to root semihardwood tree cuttings. I am trying to propagate the neighbor's sugar maple tree, and as all the spring and summer cutting attempts haven't worked, I am looking for the fall hardwood cuttings to try yet again. What I cannot seem to find is a reasonable source for the stronger rooting hormone compounds. No one will sell to me as an individual, so far anyway. I don't need a huge amount, I am not going into greenhouse gardening, but Rootone isn't getting me there for the trees, works okay on roses.... Anyone have any suggestions?
    Thanks, Linda
    Last edited by lbfoss; 08-09-2005 at 10:04 AM.
    Linda

  2. #2
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    Feb 2002
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    598
    Linda,

    Seed is the method of choice for most producers.
    Michael Dirr's book recommends 0.1% (1000 PPM) IBA talc on cuttings in June. He says they are not easy to root, and their experiments only rooted about 57%. I don't know why, but he makes no mention of harwood cuttings. You may be able to find viable seeds in Sept. - Oct., but most seeds are hollow (no seed inside). The seed would need to be stratified in moist medium for 60-90 days.
    Tom W
    Aching Back Farm

  3. #3
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    Jun 2003
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    Bolton, Ont
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    Linda your better to use seed. Your not doing anything that has special colour or characteristics like the Crimson king maple or a columnar maple then I would graft or bud them.

    The wholesalers grow them by seed then at a certain height graft or bud all kinds of maples in order to sell them sooner.

    That doesnt mean that you wont be able to produce the same tree, just longer to reach the same height.

    Linda Ive grown silver maple, Crimson king maple etc. Crimson king maple seedlings need to be selected by colour.

    Linda Collect the seed in the fall when ripe, let dry and plant.

    my intention was to grow them as root stock, but the way Im so busy Im just letting them grow. only just a handfull of them I didnt go crazy I like to experiment and learn. George.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2002
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    Surrey, BC, Canada
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    Liquid IBA

    Linda--I agree that finding high % IBA liquid is tough when you're not going to do thousands of cuttings.

    I can get it here from nursery suppliers, but it's like at least $60 for the bottles they sell. If you were friends with a propagating nursery, you might do a deal with them for a few mls. That's all I can think of.

    You're right that hardwoods often are tough to do with talc, it doesn't always "soak" in or whatever like it would with a liquid soak. I like the talc for my clematis cuttings, which are all softwoods, because it's so fast and I can see the stems that have been treated. If I did a lot of hardwoods I would try to get into the liquid stuff!

    Like the others, I'd be surprised if you could succeed with hardwood maples, I have only a few japanese maple and stewartia softwoods that made it this summer and don't even try with any harder wooded cuttings...

    Glen

  5. #5
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    Jun 2005
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    northern virginia
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    Thank you everyone!!
    I have 8 seedlings I scrounged up from under this tree early this spring. One is about 2 1/2 feet tall now, the others range down in size to 5", hmmm. Only problem is the leaves of all the seedlings aren't that of the parent maple, they are slightly different. So trying to find seeds from the parent tree (which there don't seem to be any this year) and starting them may still not produce the parent tree.....

    Second, I need information on how to train a seedling to grow into a tree. I keep nipping off the lower leaf buds to encourage top growth,, but when should I stop doing this? It is August here in zone 7, I expect the first frost in early October.

    Third, I intend to sink the seedlings in their pots into the ground for the winter and mulch them very well. Do I transplant them into larger pots in the spring or when they go dormant this fall before i bury them?

    So far my air layering hasn't worked on my azaleas, so I doubt it will work on the maple. I was trying to follow the success of an experimental paper I was directed to on line about propagating sugar maple trees.

    I just want this tree, somehow......preferably in a decent size before I get too old to move it. So, hardwood cuttings are next, and I will look to find a nursery that might sell me some .8% IBA.

    I would love any help on raising the seedlings, please !!
    thanks, Linda
    Linda

  6. #6
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    Jun 2003
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    Bolton, Ont
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    Training Sugar maples.

    Linda thats why Sugar maples are grafted or budded to insure that they carry the same characteristics of the parent.

    If you have an existing Sugar maple you might get seedlings growing under it.

    not all trees will have seed every year, sometimes if they do carry seed their empty.

    Collect seed in the fall when you see that the seed is puffy to its fullest. Soak if necessary and fill a flat or pots. Dont expect seed to be 100% accurate. Sometimes they dont develope cour until they develope a strong root system. this is similar to blue spruce, the seedlings start green then eventually within a couple years min start to turn a blue-green to blue most stay green.

    Linda this is when you choose the ones that developed colour to your liking. I mentioned spruce for an example.

    I have Crimson King maple by seed that were selected from a bunch, They still are small . Most seedlings came green. But they have the same colour like their parent.

    Linda training the tree. You primarily want to remove the lower branches as you described until it eventually over time create a trunk usualy 4'-5'. Your tree should have a trunk and some growth on top. Let the tree grow. Your developing a whip which is a main branch with tiny branches. Linda just let it grow. There's some tiny pruning to keep the tree in shape. Good luck!.

    P.S Ill try to post a pict of my Crimson king Maple seedlings. Dont expect a field full, just a hand full. My main focus was colour. George.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    598
    Linda,

    You may be wondering why some of the information that is coming to you about the maples is inconsistant. That is because I live in the deep south where Acer Saccharum is very rare, George lives in the northern reaches of the same plant, while you live on the edge of the natural limits for its growth.

    I have read this several times, and hesitated to send it, but you may find the answer to many of your questions in the following link:
    Click here: Acer saccharum Marsh
    http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/pubs/si.../saccharum.htm

    You will find in there that the maple sugar tree has some very unique characteristics, and some special needs to produce seeds, germinate, and thrive.
    Tom W
    Aching Back Farm

  8. #8
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    Jun 2005
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    northern virginia
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    Thank you, Glen, george and Tom, for the referencing article. I have it printed out. It points out that pruning is a delicate matter. I sure I can screw it up by over-pruning. I think I will stop pruning for this season. I don't know when to move the seedlings into larger pots, now or in early spring..... Doing it this fall will give them room for winter root growth, but makes the pots that much heavier to move and sink into the soil for winter mulching.
    Wish I had a place to just plant them, but right now I don't. They seem too small to try to put out into the yard on their own. Besides, I don't know how they will turn color-wise!!

    I actually used the article Tom referenced to try out air-layering back in June, but I haven't checked the branches yet to see if they grew roots. Must do that next week!! Need a ladder and a helper to hold it to check out the air-layer attempts. This is a pretty elevated tree, consequently hard to work on.!

    Any other help and comments on tree-growing will be greatly appreciated!!
    Linda
    Linda

  9. #9
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    Linda like the phrase, lightly pruned. Remember these are seedlings and dont have the strength to take much pruning.

    This is a procedure that takes many years so be patient.

    The trees would grow more if they were planted in the ground instead of in the pot.

    Linda if the seedlings were over here I would pot them up in the spring. Less disturbing. A better chance for them to root in the new soil and giving them a better chance to servive the following winter.

    Linda I wouldnt plant them out side if their tiny seedlings just yet. But again I dont know your winters.
    Colour wise I think their too young to develope the correct colour just yet. You might get the odd lucky one. Most will need strength to develope their correct colour if they do. Seedlings are just that No guarantees what youll get.

    Air layering might work and I would certainly experiment just a few. Using a ladder does scare me. Thats why I would do just a few instead of a risk on a lot without knowing the outcome.

    Good luck. George.

  10. #10
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    Thank you, George. Our winters get about 28-35 degrees in January and February. Other than that, the occasional frost, and a little snow here and there. Mostly the winter weather hoovers around freezing, and things freeze and thaw continually. makes for lots of potholes in the roads. I had planned to dig holes and put the pots with the seedlings in the holes and set them at ground level, then mulch around the lower stems with lots of mulch and shredded leaves for the winter. then in early spring, I should probably find a place or two to set them out and plant them.. They might get mowed which is why I have them in pots right now. And Maple seedlings need some shade, according to the articles I've read, to do well until they are 4-5 years old. Well, I guess I have until next March to figure out that step.
    Thank you! I won't get too bent if they don't turn pretty colors this fall, but I hope they will do a bit. I want them for their colors!
    Linda
    Linda

  11. #11
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    Jun 2003
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    Bolton, Ont
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    Linda I was re-reading the posts to be sure any thing was missing etc.
    You mentioned that you may prune too much and screw it up.

    I did have plenty but the wolskie rabbit ate them to the bottom, I do have a handfull that came back. They've been in their pots 2 years, not much growth cuz of that rabbit.

    I did recommend lightly prune branches. What I meant was trim l tips of the lower branches (leaving some growth on the branch)until the tree is about 4'-5'. By pruning the tips you slow the growth on the bottom and promote more growth on top, while the lower branches are still providing food to the tree.

    This is about as basic as I can be. George.

  12. #12
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    wow, George, thanks for the additional tip. I have been basically stripping the new growth from the lower "trunks" of the seedlings. I will stop doing that. Any new growth I will follow your directions and just pinch back 1/2 way. I think they are pretty much done for the year anyway. A couple of the seedlings only have one new set of baby leaves on them, they didn't really get going too well, and remain about the same height as when I dug them out this spring (5-6"). Maybe they will be Bonsai maple trees one day....if they survive winter. I don't have space in my garage for my car, let alone any seedlings, so all must winter outside. Will be interesting to see how they fare. I have stopped fertilizing them, and will just keep them watered until Fall now. Thanks for the extra advice. Linda
    Linda

  13. #13
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    Jun 2005
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    Okay, for anyone interested, here is a progress report.
    I presently have 5 seedlings that are truly probably babies of the mother tree. All the others were fast growers and I finally figured out that their leaves weren't quite the same because the fast growers were Sweet Gums from the tree across the street.
    So, I have planted one baby maple into the ground. These little guys are only about 5-6" tall with 4 to 8 leaves (albeit the right leaf shape and now color!!) and the one I transplanted last month really didn't have an impressive root system, so I think pots aren't encouraging growth. I will mulch them as soon as they lose their leaves and hope they all survive the winter.

    All the pods I had collected were empty and this year I don't think the mother produced any seeds at all. She has nearly dropped all her leaves ( a gorgeous reminder that my cause is noble even if it takes 20 years to grow them) and my tiny seedlings are following suit. I really don't think they grew even an inch this season. My hardwood cuttings didn't do a thing, the air layering didn't produce anything but callouses on the branches, and I am chicken to try to graft a branch, but perhaps after watching that video here in the forum, I will find a seedling swamp maple and give it a try next year.
    Oh well
    Linda

  14. #14
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    Jun 2005
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    northern virginia
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    Progress Report!!

    Those 5 seedlings have taken off!! The tallest is now about 14", has added easily 6" this spring with lots of new leaves coming. I guess they were just slow growing for the first two years because they certainly have jumped in this year!! I am so excited. Only problem is that 4 of the seedlings had their tops pinched off by either squirrels or birds and they have sent out two nice side shoots.....I want a straight trunk so i have pinched off the smaller side shoot on each and tried to straighten the trunks with staking and flower tape....seems to be working!! They are not putting out many roots so they are happy in their 5 gallon tubs at least for a couple more years!!

    and most exciting thing is they all look just like Momma, same leaves, same color change last fall....If only I can get them big enough to enjoy before I die!!!
    Linda

  15. #15
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    Dec 2002
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    northeast Tennessee
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    Way to go Linda. Glad they survived the winter. Did you bury the pots in the ground?
    How are the white buds coming along? Mine are just starting to come up. And so are the crape myrtle that you sent me.
    tennessee sue

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