Rose Cuttings - Hybrid question

[sunrisegirl]

I notice most hybrid roses are grafted and wonder what is lost when a rose cutting is grown without a graft? Is the new rose just like the old rose or???:confused:

[Ann B.]

Actually, I have put a lot of research and thought about that very topic.

Simply put, your rose should be the same as the parent plant with one possible exception. Some of the grafted hybrids are grafted primarily because they are hybrids and as such do not have desirable root structures of their own to survive the varying environmental conditions in the landscape. Some were developed strictly for the floral industry where they may not survive in conditions outside of a controlled greenhouse environment.

I do not know as much as I would like about nursery production of hybrid roses, but lately I have started wondering if the reason they graft many of them is more a time to market issue than anything else.

Many can be propagated from cuttings and will survive on their own roots, especially here in the south. With the exception of the patent issue, If you want to give it a try, then why not?

I purchased some floral roses at a bargain rate just after valentines day a couple of years ago, propagated them and most of them rooted very quickly and have even survived freezing temps despite the fact they were still in pots rather than in the ground.

And they bloomed! The blooms were identicle to the parent bloom, but smaller in size. I have a feeling that once the plants are old enough, the blooms will be larger. I also did not fertilize them as much as I should have.

Does that help?

[sunrisegirl]

I've read that roostocks are used to give disease resistance and hardyness...what you are saying makes sense since the size is smaller.

[Ann B.]

Yes, you are correct about the disease resistance and especially the hardiness. Yet, I do believe that is not always be the reason they are grafted.

Unfortunately, the disease resistance only applies to the roots and the growth at or below the graft. Some roses are more susceptible to black spot, for instance, than others. Grafting will not make this problem any better.

I would like to clarify the reason for the smaller bloom just to make sure everyone gets the idea. I didn't explain it as well as I should have.

The flower bud was smaller because the plant had not been rooted for very long when it bloomed the first time. I started cutting off the flower buds before they opened so they would put all their energy into roots and would branch out.

I have no doubt that the blooms will be the same size as the parent plant if given the same conditions (ie. fertilizer, amount of sun, etc.) once the plants are large enough to sustain healthy blooms, AND I can manage to get them planted in the garden and fertilized regularly.

For example, I took a cutting of my Mom's, propagated it, and the first year, the blooms were small and the plant didn't grow much. That has been over two years ago, and the blooms now look just like my Mom's, and the plant itself is starting to grow very fast, just like hers does.

Different varieties may require more or less time depending on their growth rate.

I do not know if my Mom's rose bush is an antique or not. It is so very old, it is even hard to tell if it is grafted, came up from root stock or is simply an old fashioned rose.

BTW, I have seen many old fashioned roses on the market that were grafted when it is not necessary to graft them. That is why I started asking myself questions about why graft when some don't necessarily need it?

It's always fun to try and usually well worth the time and effort...

Have FUN!

[sunrisegirl]

Thank you Ann. I've been wanting to try some blooms. I'm very near Tyler Texas, home of the famous roses. Tyler rose bouquets are sold on the roadside for $2 a dozen. These are small field roses. They would be ideal for my purposes. Thanks again for your in-depth reply.

[Log Cabin Pat]

Ann
I think you answered the question without knowing it. Look at it from a growers point of view. Growing roses from their own root stock takes a couple of years. He can have several thousand roots stocks ready, take orders in the fall, graft the ones he wants and they are ready by spring. some roses are hardier on their own roots but time is money.

Pat

[Ann B.]

Pat,

Thanks!.

I believe that knowledge and understanding of how nursery growers propagate specific plants for sale is extremely helpful when trying to successfully propagate them ourselves, don't you?

Sunrisegirl,

You are very fortunate to live near Tyler, TX. I passed through there many times when I was a computer sales representative in Dallas, TX many, many years ago and was calling on a medical college in Arkansas.

I still remember that the anticipation of driving through Tyler, TX and seeing all the roses made the long, tedious drive much more pleasurable.

Have FUN!

[Gene]

Sunrisegirl
Here in Kirbyville ,Texas we have a man who goes to Tyler and gets a couple truck loads of roses and sells them foe 3.00 bucks per gallon pot. Do you have any ideal where he might be getting them up there and the price he may be paying for them
GENE

[sunrisegirl]

Sorry, but I don't know. They sell the gallons by the roadside here too. They are usually smaller plants, 2nds I would call them. Same thing with the bouquets, they are not 1st class, but smaller roses and very thorny. I like them better than the hothouse ones anyway.

[sunrisegirl]

I got a bouquet of very fragrant pink roses from the roadside vendor today. Boy do they smell good! Now here is what I was thinking: I should remove the thorns, rose and most of the leaves, make a nice 45degree cut, apply rooting hormone, then??? This is the part where I'm lost....:) Should I plant cutting outside (it is very hot now) or???

[Ann B.]

Hi!

Just use the same method as described on the main web site of Landscape Propagation (http://www.landspro.com/page1.htm) . Click on the Antique Rose cutting link in the menu that will be on the left.

Or click on the Landspro.com logo at the upper left of the Landspro forum, and then click on Antique Rose Stem Cuttings when you get to the main Landspro page.

Or click below:

Antique Rose Stem Cuttings (http://www.landspro.com/page350.htm)

The last link listed above will take you directly to the Antique Rose Cutting Section of Landspro. Just follow the directions (it is currently two pages, so go to the lower rightand click on " continued" to get to the second page).

Put the potted cutting in indirect sunlight. Under a shade tree will be fine or near a window. I usually root mine under shade or in the greenhouse depending on the time of the year.

I will be adding more sections in the near future.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best...

Have FUN!

[sunrisegirl]

Thanks for your patience. It seems that I don't have any fungicide in the house. Can I use something else that I might have around the house? Believe it or not I have water crystals:)

[Ann B.]

Don't worry about the fungicide. But do remove any leaves that may fall off after they are potted. And be sure to use a sterile knife, and you can subsitute some perlite for the sand if you wish. The more sterile, the fewer problems you will have.

And be sure to cut off any portion of the bottom of the stem that looks like it may be deteriorating from sitting in the water too long. Any existing rotting conditions will promote more...

Good Luck!

[sunrisegirl]

The babies are in their pots. Here's hoping they root! I have all of these left over roses. I only did 3 roses. I found your instructions easy to follow and very clear. Thank you for making them available for an amature like me!:D

[Ann B.]

And thank you for becoming a member of Landspro!

Keep us posted. Sometimes, it takes a few tries to get really god at it.

Good Luck!

[sunrisegirl]

I hate posting this reply because none of my rose starts made it. They all turned black and died. I planted 1 in an empty water bottle "hothouse", the rest I planted in pots with baggies over them. If anything I thought I erred on the dry side because I was concerned about blackspot. But never say "die". I got another three dozen roses ($6) and prepared the entire stem the way my friend's 88 year old grandmother said and planted outside in my flower bed. This has been about 3 weeks ago and they don't look so good. I haven't pulled on any to see if they have rooted, but I think I will now.......ok, I'm back and wow many of them resist my tug!!! It seems a little more promising..I was afraid that August in Texas would not be a good time for rooting, but now it seems that it might. Oh happy day.

[Ann B.]

Since the new little rose bush that I started from cuttings of my Mom's is blooming now, I thought I would take a picture and share with you the beauty of some of these old roses. This one doesn't have much fragrance, but the blooms are gorgeous, huge and plentiful. This one is an everbloomer which means they bloom profusely in the spring, some in the summer and again profusely in the fall. They are really a little darker pink than the lighting in my garage allows to be show, but I hope you will get the idea of its beauty.

The blooms currently measure about 3 inches, and will get somewhat larger as it establishes itself. I guess a little fertilizer would help, too, huh?

Here it is:

http://www.landspro.com/mama_rose.JPG

Also, this bouquet consists of only 2 stems of clusters of flowers from the rootstock of a 20 year old Mr. Lincoln hybrid tea rose that continues to thrive and is about 10 foot tall now. The picture is taken in the spring as this one, unlike my mother's is not an everbloomer. It blooms profusely in the spring and only has a few blooms in the fall.

http://www.landspro.com/amseed_021.JPG

I wanted to take a picture of a rooted cutting of a hybrid tea rose that I salvaged after Valentines day, but the bloom was frost bitten. The bloom is getting much larger now, despite the fact that the rooted cutting is still in a 1 quart size pot. The poor thing truly needs to go in the ground soon.

Have FUN!