Fire Blight ??

[sewfarsewgood]

Kathy,

Have you taken your plants that are infected to your local state agriculture extension office and had them help diagnose what is happening to your plants??

I have pear trees and what you describe doesn't sound at all like fireblight. Fire blight normally attacks pears, apples, hawthorne, pyracantha, mountain ashe. It seems rather specific in its hosts.

The fire blight my extension agent showed me causes the leaves and then the branches to quickly turn black. It is caused by a bacteria and can be treated with streptomycin sulfate. It is spread by direct contact with the bacteria and is dormant over the winter until things leaf out and bloom in the spring.

You indicated (over on freeplants.com) you got yours from cypress mulch. I would do some more research on what might be a disease of cypress trees that could have been transferred to your plants. It might not be fireblight after all - which would be good or not good depending on what they actually have.

By the way - I have plants whose foliage gets reddish and then turns brown and crumbly when they are touched by frost. You said your greenhouse is not heated - could it just be the cold??

Gary J

[Kathy in GA]

Hi,

Been real dissapointed with Co-op here. No real way of telling, except the research I've done.
What I need is somebody really, really good, to tell me.

In the veins of the plant leaves the turn red, and then red spots (that eventually turn black) the outer edges of the leaves turn bright red (more like a hot pink color) Not neccessarily in that order. They've had the red dots first, then the outer leaf edges have turned, and visa versa. The leaves eventually turn brown and crinckle.

I called Co-op at first sign of illness he said could be vitamin deficiency. Gave them some TLC. Still didn't fix problem. Some of them are dead dead dead! Quite a few as a matter of fact.

Which leads to more contamination. But during my studies I found that open wounds.
I did even do a test to see if the bark was red inside, for what I can tell, it did seem to have a tiny red streak in each one. That also points me in the direction of the fire blight.

HOWEVER.......I have not thought about other diseases, from the Cypress Mulch...Daaaah! I was told that the cypress is a carrier of the fire blight. I will have to do research on that.
I've tried many sprays on them and have followed the directions and they clear up, and then they turn red again just as soon as treatment stops. Nothing has done the job to cure the diseases. After being unsatisfied with the Co-op, and the chemicals I've used I called nurseries and they said Diazinon, malathion,. I didn't think they would work but tried them anyway. HA that did noooooooooo Goood! Seeemed to make them worse!
Wish I could blame it on wheather, on the cold. But that is not likely. It is on one entire side of our yard, the is the side of the yard. Let me rephrase that. On one side of the yard I have the Greenhouse (infected) and in two areas I have bushes lined out. ALL of my plants are infected. Then along the tree lines (inside, of the yard)infected. Then the bushes (stock plants) in front of the house infected. Tree line in back yard is still healthy, so far.
We do have a pear tree but it is a Keiffer pear, and lost all of it's leaves in fall before.....I started having this problem with my plants so don't really know, if that was the contributor.
I've inspected the plants for oozing spores but haven't found any yet. I don't think they appear until (Spring or Summer?) though.

Off to do Reasearch on the Mulch! Thank You for the HOPE!
I'll let You know what I find out!
PLease tell me what you think about the symptoms.
By the way the outer edges of our tree lines Aren't infected. What do you think?
HELP???????
Kathy in Ga.

[sewfarsewgood]

Local Master Nurseryman needs to know the plant list that the "blight" is attacking. Indications form her is that fire blight doesn't turn things red. The "FIRE" part comes from things looking charred like they have been in a fire.

[bgauch]

I did a quick search, and would like to help more. Identifying a disease can be tough though. I found one site that listed symptoms somewhat similar to yours.

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1164.html

I have some questions for you. You mention "shrubs." What kind of shrubs do you have? Are they all affected or just most of them? If they aren't all affected, is there any correlation (i.e. same genus, species, etc.) among the affected plants? Are there any things other than shrubs affected? Trees? Vines? If so, what kind are they? Did the disease start in one small area only or did it show up all at once? What was the rate of progression for the symptoms? Was there any correlation to the weather (temp., rain, etc) that you can recall? Do they really turn "red" or is it more of a brown? Did you put the mulch on everything in your yard? Just everything that is infected? Just in one small area? Lastly, out of curiosity, as a real long shot, was the mulch that dyed red kind, instead of the natural wood color? If so, could it have been toxic to the plants as well as absorbed into the leaves/stems? Actually, I don't know if this is too far of a long shot because, if anyone remembers elementary/middle school plant expirements with the white carnation in blue water, yellow water, and then split the stem up the center and put half in each glass side by side...

Bill Gauch.

[Kathy in GA]

Hi Bill, & Sew far

You are right about that! Identifying plant diseases is hard.
I got the American Horticultural Society Encyclopedia of Gardening as a Christmas present, and used that to help determine this disease.
Could be wrong, hopefully very very wrong.
About the Fire Blight....YES the leaves have crumbled up on the stems, just like fire scorched them, but that was ONLY after they became red with the symptoms described earlier. I treated them chemically before it happened to the rest of the leaves on the lower stems, and they lost the red tint, slowly, but after several treatments they rejuvenated. Then same symptoms started all over again used different chemical, and so forth, and so forth. What ever it is nothing is working, and it just turns my stomach to think that they are gonners. Not a whole lot of hard work involved with them, just sets My Nursery Back by Months! That's what just makes me soooooo sick!

Cuttings were doing great, lined one batch out used mulch lined another batch out used mulch only had two bags mulch. Used both of them. One batch became infected first. Before they became infected I had pruned them at least 3 times now, to encourage growth, this is both batches. Then by mid to late Oct. One batch started turning red.
some red spots that eventualy turned to a black dot, with red veins, and red on the outer edges of leaves. They are Chinese Verigated Privets (by the way) Also, We still had not had cold enough weather In Oct to do damage like that, also These plants are supposed to be cold hardy, (herbaceous) so ruled that out as well.

Oh my, you've got me now! The mulch did not say "RED" on the Bag, but it was a rust color. The Bag said it was Florida Cypress Mulch.
I remember that, cause I remembered when It became illegal for people to cut down cypress trees in Florida to make Wall Clocks with them (years ago) Does the rust color have something to do with it maybe?

Yes, It's all of my plants. Except for my Mystery Gardenia. I haven't seen any sign on this one. Thank Heavens
Plants infected include:

NOTE: Cuttings from Wild, & city median ='s the (Getting place.)

Plants in the greenhouse:
Confederate Jasmine
Azaleas (getting place) got cuttings for personal personal use.
Boston Ivy
Bird Foot Ivy
Honey Suckle (getting place)
Illexora
Allamanda BUSH (not vine)
Trumpet vines, 4 different Varieties (getting places)
Vinca Vine
Forsythia
Yellow Lady Banks Rose (getting place)with dark green foilage Different variety....Okay...city median w/permission of Crew trimming them back! Lucked up on that one.

Wisteria (getting place) did cuttings in Middle of November rooted and started to grow, then started looking bad, thought they were kicking the bucket! But then green house quickly became infected. All about the same time.

Crepe Myrtle Hot pink and Light pink (getting place)couldn't tell
Virginia Creeper
Hibiscus Red
Passion Flower Incarnata
Pink Mandeville
And of course 4,000 Privet cuttings
Roses of many types, some infected, most of them are dead now, a few of them; still green & growing no blooms yet. Got them from Uncle, works for Florist, don't know varieties til they bloom. Personal use,
That's all I can think of right now.

About the trees, in the yard. I need to correct back yard is infected, but only small area, when I said back yard earlier I was refering to the rest of the 5 acres. Woods

Trees in yard infected include:
Oaks of all kinds, Boxwoods still unidentified!!!!! American Sweet Breath, American Holly, Red leaf Maple, Some other type Maple with white bark
Wax Myrtle (sort of)trying to become infected at a much slower rate,
Leyland Cypress trees in same area not affected.
Nandina looking things still unidentified. Can't quite tell with them.
Once again that's all I can think of right now.

Any ideas? Yet? What does it sound like to you?
The green house area, and lined out area are on 1/20 of an acre just like Mike suggests in his e-book, and Videos!
By the Way I'd Like to Thank You all Again for all of Your help during our troubles. I Pray that you all will be Blessed!

The rest of the yard wraps around from there, from the Garden area, up into the closest section of Trees and sweeps around the curved front yard, crosses over the driveway and into the woods right there, and the line of infected trees continues about 14 feet, and about 4 feet deep into wood line.

Hope I've given you enough information! I'd be sooooooo HAPPY if it is something simple to fix & cure!
Kathy in Ga.

:( :) :confused: :)

[sewfarsewgood]

Kathy,

The info Bill provided is pretty close on Verticillium Wilt - which I think is worse than fire blight. If you go through those items on your list that match the susceptable items and those that are resistant you get a pretty close match. For the others ?? BTW have you ever had trpouble growing tomatoes and had them die from wilt?? They are notorius for Verticillium wilt. The indication is that the wilt lives in the soil and is a fungus (pseudomonas sp).

It virtually impossible to get rid of, and you just plant resistant varieties. Running a nursery in conditions like this are just about impossible, as the state guys who license probably won't let you ship anything. I would persist with them though as its an outbreak that they need to know about.

Has anyone from Mikes Board or here sent you cuttings they were saying they would help you with. I haven't sent the cuttings and mother plant of orchid cactus yet and in a way am glad I haven't until you get this identified and under control. You will probably have to find resistant plants that can be grown safely. The orchid cactus are still available for you and if they prove resistant you have a perfect climate to grow them in and they sell for pretty good bucks and propagation is EASY. In fact send me your address on bearspaw100@hotmail.com and I'll send you some cuttings and I want you to use dirt that is from around some of your worst affected plants, rub one of the cuttings on an infected plant and lets see if the cuttings get diseased. At least the we will know if they are resistant.

Gary J

[bgauch]

Ok, I started to make a list of all your plants that you listed. It looks like just about everything is a Dicot, aka Class = Magnoliopsida. I think you can rule out fireblight and rust, as they supposedly only affect things in the rose family (Rosaceae). I cant seem to find much that affects all the things you listed. Here is my list of suspects: Verticillium, Leaf Scorch, Salt Toxicity, Other Chemical Toxicity, Nutrient Imbalance caused by high pH, some insect infestation. Also,(unlikely based on the described symptoms): Southern Blight. Unfortunatly, what you really need to do is have a sample of the plant(s) analyzed by a professional lab. Also, I would get a couple soil samples analyzed for any fungus, bacteria or insect infestation, as well as mineral content and pH. If the result of the test point to any one thing, you can take appropriate measures to solve the specific cause. No matter what the cause, I would completly clean out your greenhouse, and fumigate and sterilize everything in there including the walls and frame. Depending on the results of the tests, you can grow only resistant plants. Or, option 2, it is possible that you may be able to set up a quarantine area to grow your suceptible plants. You will have to make sure you sterilize the soil (solarize, steam, methyl bromide, etc.) Then, you would have to make an impermeable membrane of some sorts. Cover that with 2 inches of gravel. Cover that with an inch of sand. Cover that with landscape fabric. Finally, run a container nursery on top of that, making sure you only use sterilized soil, mulch, etc. I know that sounds like a lot of work, but with motivation and dedication you can do it. In fact, if you set up some sort of water/nutrient recovery system, you may be able to get some money from your state Div. of Ag. I'm sorry I cant be of more help. All I can say is that we're all pulling for you. I know everyone wants you to succede.

Bill Gauch.

[bgauch]

Oh yeah... In GA, you should consider longleaf southern pine. This is a high dollar quick turn around tree. You could grow these seedlings by the thousands and sell them to many of the various forestry companies. Actually, all the way up here in RI, I am working on a plan to sell longleaf pine to a non-profit. There are any number of things you could grow that would make lots of money. I mean, you don't get much easier than putting 1 seed in each tree tube in a big rack on a table. Then, just let nature take its course. You may have to water daily. :) Anyway, I have to get back to work now.

Bill Gauch.

[Glen in BCz7]

Gary-good thoughts on the possible verticillium virus. If only Kathy could put a definite ID on this, she could figure out options from here on.

Just a thought on verticillium, I have die back on my jap. maples every year, which I believe is verticillium--this is widespread all over our area. However, in 10 years I've never had problems with any other plant I can think of, including tomates planted a few feet away. Come to think of it, most tomato varieties are bred for resistance now anyway.

I think some virus, etc. is a leading possibility, just my experience with what I believe is verticillium is that it doesn't seem to spread to all kinds of varieties, just hangs around the maples and kills a few brances every year (it is devastating the vine maples in the local forests as well, so it's probably a natural thing that's been around forever and cycles up and down, maybe depending on weather?)

I'm just visualizing a mulch company buying a bunch of diseased trees for next to nothing, and shredding them up and spreading this stuff all over the planet--I know that the first thing the forestry guys do up here when there's an outbreak of something is log all the infected trees-where does all that infected material disappear to, once the lumber is produced? Sure would be nice if it was quarantined, and used for landfill or something, but it must be tempting to get a better buck for mulch, etc. Wonder how many other Kathy's are looking at dead plants right now, just as mystified...

Glen in BC

[Kathy in GA]

Okay Guys,

Got alot of comments to respond to here. Let's hope I remember them all!

Firstly, I'm sorry I haven't been able to get online in a few days, Baby keeping me busy, and man that two thing! Whew, it really is terrible! Looks like it's gonna keep on rolling along into the three's
still my little angel though!

Aaah now I know what a tuber is! Never knew before. A seed in a tube on a table! how simple! If i've got this vicious fungy, then yes I suppose I'll have to get into growing trees.
Let's hope not, cause there really isn't any other way to get around the Vert., except outisde of moving, or buying some uncontaminated land! HA! That's not really an option right now!

Man, oh Man! Glen that story about the trees! That just really scares me! You're right, how many other people are contaminated now? Mmmm...Scary thought. But you have good thinking on that one cause it is probably true.

I've yet to dig one up. Don't laugh at me, but I am going to put a privet in a glass of blue or green water and see if maybe it is soaking up the color from the mulch. But that wouldn't explain the dots, the red veining, or the scorched look.

No, I haven't recieved any cuttings yet. I sort of think it is a good thing though. I got so very many nice letters, and cards, each one of them made me cry both from saddness, and from SOooo much JOY! (sad tears & HAPPY tears) I am so very Thankful to all of you! I will SUCCEED no MATTER WHAT it TAKES! I also got a wonderful card and he will be sending some Cotton Easters to me when they are ready. Sad thing is though that we were supposed to trade plants this Spring, now I have nothing to send him in return! Infact I need to write to him again and request that he not send them until I find out what kind of problem I've got going on with the plants.
I bought Thank You cards that I need to send out to All of you. I do Apologize that I haven't gotten them out as of yet!!!!!!!!
I should be doing that instead of being online right now. Not spending my time wisely. I tried to email everyone A personal Thank You note the minute I opened up a card or letter, or envelope. There are a couple of people that I was not able to find email address on, so I wasn't able to send them a personal Thank You note via E-mail. I posted a Few Thank YOU's on the Boards here and at freeplants.com so that you all Would know how very much it means to me that you are all so willing to help a fellow gardner succeed! I apologize to those that I haven't personally emailed. Please send me your email address LEYFUD@aol.com. As a matter of fact I'll write some Thankyou Cards out when I sign off! The money that we recieved I have set aside in a seperate account. So that it will not be spent on anything "except" for garden supplies, that I need to get the Nursery started. When you all so graciously sent the money to us, I thought about it very hard, about how we would use the money, and I decided that the money would be spent best, Invested in the Nursery, so that I can start making money from plants. For the funds from the plants will help with other things as well! I have a couple of very Special things planned for All Who have Helped us. It may take sometime before I have all of them done, but I think You will all be Very Happy! I'm forever endebted, and forever Thankful to ALL OF YOU! :+) :+) :+)
Before you send the orchid cactus please tell me if you think that I would be able to grow them in a pot, or some type of container (potting soil) without them becoming contaminated. Can they be grown indoors? I'd really hate for you to send them to me and all of them die!!!!!! Infact please don't do that unless there is a way that I could grow like in pots, or containers, maybe indoors without them dying. DON'T send any if that can't be done! I'd be happy to do a test for you. But we would only need one for the test, I just don't want to waste a beautiful plant!

Ever since I read the Verticullum (sp?) link I've been thinking about what I could do then to keep on growing things, without them becoming contaminated. The only thing that I can come up with is a Huge sheet of Black tarp, and having sand brought in, and then buying some more plack tarps. and Rocks. Lay the rocks down in a concreted area, then laying down the black tarp on top of them and then growing the bushes in Huge pots, (becasue my immediate goals) as of last year were to grow ornamental bushes large enough to sell to Landscape Companies, until I was able to start my own Landscp. Co. Does that sound at all feasible? Do any of you think it would work? Maybe I should just grow small things in pots, that can be put ontop of crates, or shelves.

Next step is to find out how I can get the soil tested for the Vert.
I'm not giving up hope! Even If I'm only ever able to grow on a bench or whatever, I'm not giving up!

Off to check out the red sider mites.
Kathy in Ga.:( :confused: :eek: :)