Seedling Dormancy Requirements

[Ann B.]

Rebecca, you asked about this. Hopefully, Hans will add more of his thoughts since he grows all of his indoors during the winter.

This one is in a cell pak and was protected with minimal light on the porch where it did not freeze, but got pretty cold.

It is so large that it burst open the cell pak. The size is about the diameter of 1/2 dollar coin.

I didn't realize that it was sitting in a flat with no holes, so some of the time, its roots were in water during the cool months of winter. It never went dormant and has large healthy leaves that are dark green, but not as strong as they should be due to lack of light.

[Ann B.]

Please don't mind the spider webs in the last image. The spiders feed my lizards.:D

Here is the one that was left outside with no protection other than the grass and pots around it. It is in the same cell pak and was one of the same batch of seeds from Red Lion.

This one obviously went dormant, and the leaves are now about 2-3 inches long.

[Rebecca]

Ann,

Powerful roots for such a small bulb!

I'm wondering if allowing seedlings to go dormant woould affect the time it takes to reach first bloom. Mine haven't made much top growth over the winter due to the cooler temps but done have shown any desire to take a full rest so I have kept them watred.

Yes, I do wish Hans would pop in and advise us on several of these issues!

We're supposed to get rain in the morning so I won't be doing much dgging (except for two daylilies that I forgot to dig for Linda and will have to get done ASAP), so I may play with my babies after the rains have ended.

Dug the "Easter Lilies" today and found a awful lot of bulblets and only two blooming sized bulbs. Although I did dig up some the other day that had the yellow bulbs, but I thought they were something else. Guess I'll find out when they bloom. I'm planning on being able to put all of the bulblets in the ground over in the borrowed garden once I get all this digging done, and a good many of the sma;;er bulbs will end up over there as well. The EAster Lilies will have to go back in the ground somewhere or they'll have to winter over inthe house as they just will not winter over outside in a pot. It wioll be good when these start to bloom so I can tag them and know (once again) what I do have and can decide on which to sell and whic to keep. Where to plant them is another issue altogether!

Saw he most amazing image on the Spider Group of a large outside bed of mostly Double Flowered Amaryllis! Just spectacular! All of the ones we've been discussing and a few more! Outside, year round! Daened if I can rememeber where this fellow lives though!


Rebecca

[haweha]

Hello...

If you want to boost your seedlings within a minimum of time (24 months) into the bloomable size there is really no alternative to continuous growth, supported by perpetuous dilute feeding and sufficient light and temperature (>20°C)...
...WITHOUT any reposal time.

The (first) reposal period THEN (after the seedling bulbs have probably formed the very first scape inside) is (only) essential to initiate the futher elongation of this first preformed scape in the bulb.

Reposal period is a temperature thing.
It does not necessarily nor advantageously mean that you let the plants dry out or even unpot the poor bulbs:

The perfect kind of reposal period is namely a clever manipulation of potted plants by transferring them from indoors (20-25°C) to outdoors or into a bright unheated greenhouse in spring (9-17°C) watering them very cautiously then and await the gradual rise of temperatures towards the early summer.
Vigorous scapes from plants in full leaves with an intact root network will appear, and this gives a great show.

However, for plant hygienical reasons, I prefer a strict reposal time, initiated by an interruption of the watering. After some days the roots will have exhausted all water from the substrate and then I cut all the leaves away and store the seedling boxes absolutely dry (in order to avoid any premature leaf formation on the rather dark storage area) at 9-17°C until "serious" new growth reappears spontaneously.

Hans-Werner

[lbfoss]

Hans,
If I understand correctly... I have had a dormant amaryllis sitting in the low light of my garage since November. It is warmning up now, but I have not seen any new growth on it. Should I start by watering it a bit or just move it out into a brighter, warmer area and wait to see if growth appears? I have completely ignored it for quite a while now.
Thank you
Linda

[haweha]

Hi Linda:

"Aiding a little bit" (with some water and some more light and heat) in order to finish dormancy - that is clearly NOT the idea.

The essential is a bulb WILL after a certain period of storage at 13°C (or 6-17°C respectively) spontaneously exhibit new fresh growth EVEN when stored as completely dry bulb even without any roots.
Then is the perfect moment to start forcing, although that is not "crucial": Beginning of the forcement "somewhat" earlier will yield perfect results, too.

Hans-Werner

[Dazed_Lily]

It seems that Amaryllis have their own internal clocks.
Will an indoor potted amaryllis spontaneously go dormant , on its own, at some point ?

[haweha]

I have no serious indications for an internal clock in gardener's amaryllis (hippeastrum).
It appears "as if" but in fall/winter the interruption in the formation of new leaves at the windowsill is simply a reaction to the light offer from outdoors becoming picayune *ggg*

And as regards to outdoors - there the growth comes to a standstill because of the lower temperatures.

[haweha]

The processes of bud initiation and scape elongation within the bulb are temperature depending processes with certain minimum time demands.

In THIS sense you can indeed speak of "internal clocks":

During the growing season (warm) new buds/scapes are initiated in succession (one scape with the newest 4 leaves).
This takes a rather long time and time-sum, respectively - if 2 or more stems are prospected and the bulb should be rebuilt sufficiently - several months. After having reached a certain stage of development the process comes to a standstill for the individual scape. After a sufficient vegetation period up to 3 scapes are preformed which do not develop further, and after a prolonged vegetation period (particularly in the greenhosuse or indoors) up to 4 scapes are "as ready as possible".

Further delopment, essentially a simple elongation of the scapes within the bulb, takes place under reposal conditions, perfectly 13°Celsius for the tetraploid hybrids (common knight star lilies).
The minimum time demand is approx. 6 weeks.

[Rebecca]

After I get this monumentous plant exodus finished and the temps warm a bit more I plan on taking the amyarllis seedling outside and repotting them. Due to space limitations, only the larest bulbs will be put into individual pots, the others will go back into community pots with their size determining how many will be planted per container. I wil try to use 1-gallon sized pots for the added depth and room for root development. I would prefer to put the larger individuals into gallon sized pots as well, but am concerned that the mix could stay too moist for too long. The 6-inch "mum pots" use for most other plats just don't seem to be deep enough for proper root development in the amaryllis. While the 6-inch pots do have approximately the same diameter, they are only about half as deep. My thinking is at this stage, 18 month old seedlings, should be ready for more depth for their root systems to develop. It sounds logical to me. Something else I have noticed about the sedlings is they seem to have pulled themselves deeper that what I had transplanted them. When these get transplanted again in a few weeks should I plant them at the same depth or higher so the shoulder of the little bulb is closer to the surface? With mature bulbs I have always planted them with at least 1/3 of the bulb above the soil level, but I just am not sure what is best for small immature seedling bulbs. Any advice on this point, Hans?


Rebecca

[haweha]

That is interesting,
Rebecca:

I never experienced any "pulling-down" of Hippeastrum bulbs although the plants should be principally apt to do that by the aid of their contractile roots.

For me, the plant depth is a compromise between "as high as possible" for plant hygienical reasons (I experience a very strong infection pressure by tarsonemid mites and have to cure the bulbs quasi permanently by spraying with dimethoate or oxydemeton-methyl) and "as deep as possible" because then the basal plate is situated in a depth of substrate layer which not so likely to dry out between the water gifts.

Generally I plant all seedling bulbs (which are at this age - still - uninfected by bulb scale mites) so that the nose of bulb is just poking a little bit out of the soil surface. When the bulb then begins to grow it will gradually emerge above the substrate surface, thus doing the opposite as that what you experienced.

When I replant bigger bulbs I pot them at half their height into the substrate. Sometimes the situation is a little bit complicated if there are daughter bulbs attached to the centrally "throning" mother bulb. Then I "model or "mold" the substrate surface in the manner that the daughter bulbs are not covered with soil. I must have the majority of the surface of all bulbs visible and accessible in order to control the sanitary state and commence appropriate measures in time before the bulb surface would transsubstantiate *ggg* into a rotten pulp.

Hans-Werner

[Ann B.]

I have seen what Rebecca is talking about in numerous types of bulbs including H. Johnsonii which was a tiny thing when it fell to its destination beside my fireplace. Keep in mind, that I did not plant this bulb here, but yet you see the pictures in the previous posts of this thread. The bulb is alive and well and has multiplied. They are blooming better than the ones beside my gh.

Also, I have some seedlings that I planted in a 5 gallon pot. They also 'seem' to have pulled themself down. The base of the leaves are barely above the surface. Yet, as they become crowded, they tend to push upward as if to make more room to multiply.

Indeed, as more baby bulbs form, the mother gets higher and higher in the pot. It is quite fascinating to see. New bulbs will form under the surface, and I do nothing to try to expose them. They eventually will push themselves to the top when they get big enough.

I suppose I need to take some pictures of this. I have numerous large pots with bulbs doing this sort of thing. Strange, huh? They seem to know what to do to take care of themselves.

I haven't had any problems with mites, fungas gnats or any other sort of critter, but I do have one bulb that was crushed badly during Hurricane Rita. It split wide open, and at first it looked like it would do okay, but after spending the winter in the patio (isolated), then taking it outside, I spotted my first sign of rot. I felt as though I had lost it. Knowing the source of its injury, I isolated it and withheld water. The rot dried up. The remaining portion of the bulb is fine. The old leaves have been removed, and I am going to give it one more chance.

If nothing else, I can split the bulb and try to create new ones. I checked. The roots are healthy, and the only damage that was done was to 1/2 of the upper third or so of the bulb. I believe it will survive.

My goodness! These are one fantastic bulb! That tree was enormous, and the bulb should have been crushed to a mulch, but it wasn't....

[haweha]

as more baby bulbs form, the mother gets higher and higher in the pot

Yes that is exactly what I am experiencing too!

[Rebecca]

Lately I haven't had much time to really check on my amaryllis seedlins other than to give them a drink of water. Today I noticed that a lot of them are either, A) going dormant, or B) dying. I'm sure hoping it's "A" and not "B".

I've a barrel full of some of the nicest leaf mold, worm castings, composted whatever happened to fall onto the parking lot and in between the slats of the pallets I used to set pots, etc on over the winter. I have potting mix (bagged), canadian peat and perlite I can mix with this "black gold" to move all of the seedlings to. In the meantime, should I stop watering, just water sparingly or what?


Thank you for any advice.


Rebecca

[Ann B.]

Rebecca,

Just make sure that your soil mix drains very well.

Did you recently move them outside or are they still in the basement?

There may be a reason that they lost their leaves, but that doesn't mean they are dead or dying. As long as they look like little tear drop shaped pearls, they are fine and will grow new leaves when it is warm enough.

I have some older ones that I did not remove leaves from, and I do believe I will take the time to do that tomorrow. The old leaves start looking old, and when the older ones are removed, new ones will replace them.

Or at least that is the way it is here when they are outside.

Hans can probably add some insight from his experience. Hopefully, he will have time to stop by and tell us what he thinks.

[Rebecca]

Ann,

All of my amaryllis are still inside. All of my inside plants are suffering from neglect. I'm suffering from neglect! This other "thing" has me drained of everything.

I did watch what was happening when I took a couple of dried leaves off of one of the little seedlings and there is a little bulb just under the surface. I haven't dug any out to check the roots though. Maybe tomorrow I can take the time to go down and gently dig up a couple of the "dormant" bulblets.

I have a white one blooming in one of the wallpaper paste tray planters, no doubt it is 'Dazzler'. Also in the same planter is one that has buds that remind me of a double flowering type. Be a few more days before it opens. It's probably another of the 'Appleblossm' bulbs I have, but the buds seem to short and blunt to be 'Appleblossom' or any single for that matter. But my brain is mush here lately, so I am not even sure what I am looking at, let alone seeing.

I have perlite to add for drainage and have used some of this compost with perlite added to pot up a few small hens and chicks that needed to be rescued from a pot that has stayed too wet..

I've got some sort of weed poisoning on my wrists and hands and I think I've managed to trasfer some to my face. No poison ivy around, so it might just be nerves/hives.



Rebecca

[Ann B.]

Rebecca,

Take care of those 'hives', no matter what the cause. Heat does that to me, and right now, I float from one teacher's room to another, and I/we get cold/hot, and many extremes of all that. So, I understand the skin reation to various things. Blackberry vines are my evil right now, or so I think. LAS! Who knows! Maybe, it is just called getting downright old, and when you are around young, energetic folks all day, you start to feel even older.

Naw! Not me... I prefer other terms, Hee, hee!

Well, anyway. Back to seedlings! I lost the post and don't have time to find it. Remember that I am comparing different methods of germinating. My primary focus is on TIME and success combined.

Still, I truly like the tissue in the baggie. It is easy, takes so little care, and when you are ready, you transplant to a permanent pot.

The little greenhouse (plastic cover over small pot) under fluorescents works great, but the method shows best results with the seedlings very close to the lights.

The modified version of the window box in the old gh is doing good also, but I think Hans' idea of having them close under lights would help. They are developing great roots, but not much green growth yet. The advantage of this approach is that transplant time is delayed, so I am hopeful. The disadvantage is that I lack space in my indoor fluorescent light rack to place the window boxes.

That means a tradeoff... And I am going to have to wait a long time to see if that tradeoff is worth it. I love the idea of leaving them in the window box for the first year until they can go in the ground.

The water method... Well, I do finally see roots forming, but no green growth. The old seeds sunk to the bottom rather quickly and a few have roots forming. I am not impressed with the older seed success.

The newer seeds in the water (float) method has not impressed me either. All of the above are in the old gh where temps remain very warm.

I guess what I am saying it that these seeds are easy no matter what, and whatever method, out of many, that works for you is the best.

Rebecca, your seedlings went dormant primarily due to the coolness of your basement and lack of water. Or at least that is what I suspect. There is no doubt in my mind that as long as there are not some sort of pests, they will be just fine.

As far as sowing them vertically as opposed to horizontally, the verdict is still out. The vertical ones seem to be producing more root struction whereas the horizontal seem to be putting out leaves faster.

Go figure... If I plant the horizontal ones deeper, then they take longer to produce leaves.

Okay, that's a lot of dumping, but it is a beginning toward 'my' figuring out what way is best for me.

[Rebecca]

The Amaryllis seedlings are still in the basement, waiting. However, I did manage to pot up the three community pots of daylily seedlings today. Alsomanaged to get one entire comm pot of them mixed up so don't know if they have the right tags with them or not. Guess I'll find out in a couple of years when they bloom. Of course these were the more important ones, the SPUF's. Hauled the two tubs of DL seedlings out to the patio rack today also. Not those are going to be interesting when time comes to pot them up. They are really packed into those tubs. Cringe!

Maybe I bring up the Amaryllis and Cliva seedlings tomorrow. That is after I make room for them on the patio rack.


Rebecca