Another unknown bulb

[vicki]

Here's another unknown bulb. At least I think they are bulbs.
I've had them planted for 3 yrs. but have only ever seen foliage. When I pull the mulch back in the spring they are already growing more than this. Then they go dormant and now I have this foliage again. Any thoughts? TIA!

[Rebecca]

It looks vaguely familiar, but I need to research it first.

Rebecca

[vicki]

I'm also going to post this on the bulb forum and see what those fine folks have to say. I'll let you know.

[Rebecca]

It reminds me of Erythronium, which includes the Dog's Tooth Violet and the Trout Lily, except, it has too many leaves! I'm still relatively sure it is a member of the Lily Family.

So often it is really difficult to know what something is from an image, especially when it is only of the foliage. You might want to carefully dig up one of the plants to see what type of bulb it has; shape size, color any and all descriptive characteristics. Also measure the leaves, it could help with it's identity.

Consult your local Extension Office too, as they can put you in touch with the Master Gardens in your area and they may be able to help you I.D. this non-bloomer. Also ask the Extension Office for the e-mail address for the State University's Botany Dept.

Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

Colchicum autumnale ?
It likes sun--maybe that's why is hasn't bloomed.

[vicki]

I've still been trying to identify it. Here's an updated fall photo. I was having computer problems awhile ago, and didn't get to do any follow ups that Rebecca suggested.

I did dig one up and replanted it. But didn't get a photo of the bulb. :(
It was 'oniony' looking to me.
The leaves don't look like 'autumn crocus' to me though.
quite a difference from the spring photo.

[Ann B.]

Vicki,

It could very well be a wild allium of some sort. You'd be surprised how many different types of leaves that variuos alliums have...

Whatever it is, I certainly wouldn't mind having it in my garden. The foliage is VERY NICE!

How big was the bulb?

[Rebecca]

Look up Veltheimia and check out this link:

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/bulbs-summer/velthemia.html

Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

Vicki- That is a really nice photo. It looks like one of Rebecca's creations but it is the 'actual' thing. Pretty cool!

[vicki]

Thanks Cathy!
Rebecca,
Nope, not that one. These are hardy, been in the ground for 3+ yrs. The one I replanted was one of the smaller ones and the bulb was about as big as the end of my index finger.
I can't figure out how to post a pic at GW. Geez!

[Ann B.]

Vicki,

Email the pictures to me, and I will see if I can remember how to upload the pics to Landspro, and I can provide the link to use on GW.

or...

The other thing that you can do is copy and paste the link to this thread. I have seen quite a few people visiting LP from this sort of link.

It's really hard to tell what the bulb is until it blooms. The foliage is beautiful, though.

FUN, isn't it? Do you think it is a wild bulb of some kind?

[Ann B.]

Vicki,

My latest thoughts were Lily of the Valley, but then I look at this pic again, and I think not.... This is one bulb that does not do well here, or at least I have not figure out how.

Copy and paste the following link to wherever you wish.

http://www.landspro.com/Vicki's%20Unknown%20Bulb.jpg

You are special, and I hope that helps!

[Rebecca]

Not Lily of the Valley, wrong plant structure and LV grow from "pips" or pipes. The plant looks so familiar to me, yet I still can not place it.

Are there any orchids native to your area?

Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

I agree with the sense of deja vu. Vicki--did you actually plant this. I feel like it's native. I'm going to scour the link below when I have time. In the meantime, maybe someone else would be interested in viewing:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12146---,00.html

[haweha]

I guess that these leaves-in-circles originate from the madonna lily Lilium candidum - and that should already have come-to-light in Vicki's garden, because the plants send up their scapes now.
Am I ummh... correct :confused: :D

[Dazed_Lily]

Vicki- Do you think that is what it is ? (see above)

[Rebecca]

Sorry, but that is not Lilium candidum , the Modonna Lily. The plant is all wrong, although it may be in the Family Liliacea. Also, Lilium candidum is a summer flowering bulb, not spring.


Rebecca

[haweha]

Hi Rebecca

You are right - AND you are ummmmmh....

This lily emerges a circle of leaves in automn -
I implore you - believe me though! :D

"has a basal rosette of leaves through the winter"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_lily

Well and I do believe that one illustration from the web might be helpfull:
http://static.flickr.com/40/74996380_bcb3a985d8_m.jpg
(oops - not the very best one;
Vicki's photo documentation is gorgeous and ornamental in comparison to that)

This early first (stemless) sprouting is the reason for that madonna lilies HAVE to be replanted in August/September.

Early sprouting in late summer is not so uncommon in the bulbous lilie's relationship; one other example are certain grape hyazinths. (Muscari, M.botryoides I think)

Hans-Werner

[Rebecca]

Identifying aa (any) plant by only it's copmmon name can be troublesome, to say the least.

When you say "Modonna Lily" I think of the "Easter Lily", which is oft refered to as an "Easyer Lily". Easter Lily (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_lily)

I have a few of the so called "Easter Lilies", or more correctly Lilium longiflorum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilium_longiflorum

The bloom form is similiar, but the plant habit are totally different. I can not recall ever seeing Lilium candidium or "Modonna Lily" offered for sale at any of the Nurseries, Garden Centers, etc. I look for lilies, especially ones I haven't seen before.

The "Easter Lily" (most often Lilium longiflorum) normally blooms in late July to mid-August, all the ones sold at Easter time are forced. Many people are not aware that they can be planted out in their gardens and with a little extra protection (heavy mulching) the first couple of years, they are quite hardy and will come back every spring as well as multiply. They are a very low tolorance for remaining to moist though so care must be taken to provide these bulbs with excelent drainage. I dig the planting holes bigger and deeper than needed to accommodaate the bulb(s) and back fill with gravel and add a few inches of soil on top of that before placing the bulb in the hole. The bulbs roots will seack out the soil as well as making anchorring roots on the stem at ground level. The plant will produce off-sets in this area as well as in between the scales of the bulbs.

Lilium longiflorium make wonderful container plants, but will not winter over in a pot and must be stored indoors in a frost free area, or planted in the ground as soon as the last bloom has finished. Better suited for container growing are any of the numerous Asiatic lilies and they are hardy enough that they will winter over in a pot, as long as the potting mix used has near perfect drainage.


Rebecca

[haweha]

When you say "Modonna Lily" I think of the "Easter Lily"...

Hi, Rebecca:

I included the correct botanical L.candidum for the name of the lily I referred to - in my previous post.
Now furthermore, neither a modonna lily nor a L.candidium do exist. A google search gives clear info about the identity of the madonna lily:
http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&q=%22madonna%20lily%22&btnG=Google-Suche&sa=N&tab=wi

madonna is the brief form of ma donna = my lady
This lily is the "whitest" (L.longiflorum buds are far greener) and with its brilliant and pure glistening shining it became the symbol of virginal purity and thus for Madonna Maria.
In several pictures of this lily even the anthers were omitted to underline virginal innocence.

Hans-Werner

[Rebecca]

Hans,

You must forgive my mis-spelling.

I was just trying to say why I and perhaps none of the rest of us here even thought to look at the "Madonna Lily", L. candidum.


My apologies,


Rebecca

[haweha]

none of us...

That is interesting,
Rebecca:

This lily was imported by the Romans presumably from the Middle Orient to South Europe. In Germany it is (still) rather well established I believe; at least is it well known among enthousiasts of bulbous plants. It is said to be preferably found in "old gardens of countrymen".
My parents are growing a very very small stock of these in their garden. Unfortunately these plants do not exhibit an optimistic forthcoming because the soil consists of acid loam which is poor in lime. This species loves limestone!
The special growth behaviour I mentioned is unique among the genuine lilies and it demands that replanting should occur in late summer.

The performance of Vicki's plants was so great even in this solely "vegetative state" - I would presume that the respective flower scapes will make a great show! Unfortunately the pure species does not produce seeds, solely the var. salonikae is apt to.

I am hopefully looking forward to news from Vicki.

Kind regards
Hans-Werner

[vicki]

New pic on the unknown bulbs. I did plant this, my first or 2nd yr. gardening. Either 3 or 4 yrs. ago. This year it is doing something different, that I haven't seen before. That would be cool if it was a 'Madonna Lily'. Thanks for all your's help.

p.s. Welcome Hans! I've been gone awhile, and don't recall welcoming you before.

[Rebecca]

Vicki,

I must say it really "looks" like a lily to me now! As for the different look, I'd say it means it could ery possibly bloom this season! I true,y hope it does as that would end any questions about which Lilium it is once and for all! My money is on Han's prediction that it is, indeed, the Madonna Lily.


Rebecca

[haweha]

Thank you,
Vicki:

The plants are looking good and there are at least 2 stalks emerging in the center of this cluster - and these will reveal the predicted identity... with numerous pure white blooms and a veritably stunning fragrance.

Please take care and examine these precious plants carefully whether any leaves are/become damaged (holes).
A certain BUG loves to eat them!
Lilioceris lilii (http://images.google.de/images?svnum=10&hl=de&lr=&q=lilioceris+lilii&btnG=Suche)

Hans-Werner

[Rebecca]

I was hoping it hadn't made it's way to the States, wrong! Here's a linck with more than you wanted to know about these decepively beautiful devils!

Red Lily Beetle (http://www.hillgardens.com/asianlilybeetles.htm)


Han's thanks for the heads up! With all the lilliums I grow I need to be aware of this little beastie!

Rebecca

[vicki]

Thank you much Hans. Ooh, what a nasty little bug. I love lillies and white will be a welcome color, too.

[haweha]

...link .. about these beautiful devils :D :eek:

Thank you,
Rebecca:

That is interesting and warning news.
constant vigilance is essential!

These animals let themselves drop onto the soil if they are disturbed. This makes "collecting" somewhat difficult.
And guess; WHEN you have caught one and hold it tight it will make noise; it "cries" :eek:

Hans-Werner

[vicki]

Excited to see this!

[Rebecca]

Vickki,

I am so excited for you! And ya know, there will be more than one bud when the inflorescens grows out. If you get any of the rain we've been getting here today, that should happen pretty quickly!

Keep watching it!



Rebecca

[vicki]

I really didn't know Rebecca, but thanks to you, now I do. :)
Yes, we are getting lots of good rain. All last night and so far today.

[Ann B.]

Hey, Vicki!

I've been watching this thread with awe...

Whatever this bulb is, the foliage is very beautiful, and I have to tell you that I would definitely grow it simply for the foliage, and now that we are awaiting the bloom, well, what can I say? A bloom on top of that gorgeous foliage is definitely a WINNER!

Now that you know we are all hooked, you absolutely must make sure to get a picture fo the bloom(s).

Gee, Vicki, it is so good to have you back!

[vicki]

I'm big happy (grandgirls description of happy), to be back!!!

The bud still looks the same, maybe a little bigger. Hans tells me this is a Madonna lily. I have at least 10 plants/bulbs if you'd like me to send you a couple when they go dormant, I'd be more than happy to. JLMK

I will definitely be keeping my eyes on this and get pictures!

[vicki]

Well here is the pic. I sure wish I could take better pictures of white flowers. They are hard to photograph.

[Ann B.]

Oh, my goodness!!!!

They are BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D