Jiffy peat pots

[AllGreenThumbs]

Okay, so I took an hour and read up on all the recent posts on daylilies (my favorite perennial) and I had to jump in and start a discussion about Jiffy peat pots and pellets. I hate 'em..lol.

There are several posts about yellow or pale leaves; it's about the peat pots, pellets or peat.
There are several posts about gnats; it's about the peat pots, pellets or peat.

I mentioned in another post just a few minutes ago about this nursery I'm working for. They will not even sell Jiffy products for this very reason. Seeds/seedlings need good drainage and air circulation to the roots. Peat without vermiculite retains and holds water and when and if it dries out, is harder than a rock (almost)
So, as you might have already noticed, if you water, it stays too wet, too long, (causing yellow or pale leaves) which also attracts the gnats. The peat cups, pellets or any kind of peat holds water too long. Sometimes this can decrease your amount of germination as well because the seeds merely rot.

We use a peat product but it has a good amount of vermiculite in it. We lightly fill (with dry or barely damp mix) plug trays. Don't tamp the soil down at all! Just fill to the top and level off with your hand. Our plug trays hold only about 3" of soil and have a small (pencil size) hole in the bottom for drainage. An inexpensive alternative would be those styrofoam egg cartons you can pick a pencil through the bottom for a drainage hole. Press your seeds gently (twice as deep as the seed is in size) and cover. Again, do not press or tamp down the soil. If you do, you are defeating the purpose of good air circulation to the roots that will form.

Gently water in. The soil will naturally settle on it's own each time you water. If you're using these egg cartons, you can use the lid and just close it up until the seeds germinate which will keep the humidity in. Once they come up, leave the lid open or cut it off and use it for a tray under the carton. The seedlings need the air circulation more than they need the humidity once the seeds have germinated.

Yellow or pales leaves are caused by two things. Lack of nutients and lack of natural sunlight. Even if you choose to fertilize, you can still have pale or yellow leaves because of lack of sunlight. Gnats are drawn to moisture, humidity and decay. Control the moisture and you get rid of the gnats, fungas, mold and decay.

To summarize:

Use vermiculite in your seed potting mix, always for good root ventilation! Roots need oxygen too.
Plant seeds in containers that have a drainage hole.
Don't press or tamp down the soil.
Don't worry about providing humidity AFTER the seedlings have sprouted.
Water from the bottom if at all possible, letting the soil soak up the moisture. This will keep the top soil from molding and drawing gnats and damping off many of your seedlings that have emerged.

Just my two cents..

Becki

[Rebecca]

I didn't use the Jiffy Peat Pellets this year and had a bigger problem with fungus gnats than I ever did with the pellets! Go figure!

I used a very high quality potting mix and good old plastic pots. All I can figure is that the mix is very high in organic matter!

Rebecca

[AllGreenThumbs]

Rebecca,

You nailed it right on the head. Seeds don't need organic matter, which is too heavy for them, they need areation. Now once they get up and going (past the damping off critical stage) they'd be better able to handle the organic matter.

Becki

I love your new water color photos! :)

[Dazed_Lily]

Hmmm. All makes sense. I was a Jiffy pellet user my first time out of the shoot with daylily seeds. Two challenges with the Jiffys: 1) It is possible to overwater the pellets despite draining off the excess--I'd rather slowly add enough to get them to expand to 1.5 inches high(per directions) 2) Despite thinking you are planting at say 1/4 inch, because the peat can have gaps in it it is possible that the seed will fall lower(this accounted for all of my no-grows--none were yours Rebecca-all but 3 of yours grew-you've got the best seeds--most sprouting when just seeds)--now I check to make sure that there is firm peat below the level I'm placing the seed. The Schultz spray pretty much controlled the gnats which showed up after moving them to community pots.(I know they are omnipresent and had some in a nearby after Christmas discount poinsettia- aka the villain in the story).
For damping off, this year I am trying no-damp milled sphagnum moss on my 'other' seeds(I know, "thou shalt not have companion plants before thy daylilies"--oh well!). I'm using it on lilium seeds(oops, shh, don't tell the hemaholics). For all of those I'm using plastic cells and potting soil(light for seed starting). I sprinkle it on top and mist well. I haven't had damping off on any daylily seeds except one from the initially overwatered peat pellet group and haven't used it on the daylilies.
I agree that if one were to forgo the pellets that soil composition is critical ! And do not use potting soil--unless it says 'soil-less' or seed staring soil. Interestingly, the sphag moss bag indicates that you can start seeds in it alone--of course, at some point you have to move them or fertilize since there are no nutrients.
Good discussion. Thanks for the input.

[Rebecca]

I know I should probably use a seed starter type of potting soil, but with as much potting soil as I do use (over 40 cu. ft. so far this spring), it's just a lot easier and cheaper to buy one potting mix that can be used for everything.

If I had sprayed the gnats would not have been as bad; neither would the white flies on nearly everything else inthe basement. I also have a bad case of soft brown scale on a couple of my woody tropicals. I'll deal with that when those plants go outside. If they are really bad I'll just have to trash the plants as I have neither time nor energy to fight with pests.

Had to just quit with all the diggin, dividin and all. I've been sick for the last two days now. Not enough to go to the doctor. Don't know if I simply over-did it in my all out effort to get it done or if I actually have contracted a virus. All I do know is I feel lousy.

Becki, contact "Peoplepleaser" about my sales list, she's handling my mail order sales for me this year. Anyone else interested in what I have for sale this spring, please contact her. I've tried to email my list to a couple of people and the file is just too large and has caused several connection failures. When I get to feeling better, I'll try to get an up-dated (text only) list made and sent to Linda (PeoplePleaser) and anyone else who is interested in recieving it. Still go through Linda, since she is coordinating and earning bonuses for all her hard work!

It looks like I might have a couple of divisions avalable from my keepers. They will be higher priced than the others, but nothing near to what one would be paying for a registered introduction! I also have a lot of last year's seedlings (grown from other hybridizers seeds) that I'll be using as bonus plants. Their little lables were lost over the winter and I can't find the sdlg bed map where everything was indicated and I can't find my notes on them either. It's been a rough spring!

All for now, really must rest.


Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

I am starting to have other thoughts about Jiffys. I have seeds that have yet to sprout after 8 days. I went hunting for them and found them lower than planted initially in the Jiffy. What strange phenomenon is that ?! I am in the process of extricating them and resetting them higher. I don't get it. I am also going to start a new thread on seed pre-treatments but don't have time right now ;-)

[Dazed_Lily]

Yes, it appears that I'm answering my own posts(something akin to talking to one's self !). I was going about restting the seeds when I came across some that were getting roots and then I discovered that I have a daylily conscience that sounds alot like Rebecca-LOL ! I could hear her saying, "Leave them alone !!!!--some take longer than others--give them up to 30 days". That plus the prospect of resetting 36 peat pellets was enough for me to say Yes, Daylily conscience, you make a good point !
I still want to talk pretreatment though(maybe tomorrow) and still am wondering about the sink hole phenomenom w/ Jiffys.

[Rebecca]

Starting to sound like ME! OMG! you poor child! LOL!

Sinkholes: Are you using a seed starter mix in those pots? With as very light as it is and as heavy as daylily seeds are, it really doesn't surprise me that the seeds would migrate down. Nest time try watering the pots of mix before you plant the seeds. This would settle the soil quite well. Then, if the seeds haven't been pre-sprouted, simple press them into the mix, but don't cover them. If you have pre-sprouted the seeds, use a pencil to make a depression for the seed and insert it into the hole, again to the point that the top of the seed is even with the top of the mix. Because of the weiight of the seed it will pull itself down (or not) Always water from the bottom and mist the tops if they dry out toomuch before they really need a thorough watering.

Still chuckling about your say you sound like me!

Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

Same song;Second Verse

A pox on Jiffy pellets !
This is year 2,I’m on tray 3 . Tray 1 did OK-I did have to swab some roots poking out of the pellets with bleach solution because they looked too fuzzy and then placed the pellet in a 16 oz cup with soil(the ultimate indoor destination for all seedlings) Tray 2 had signs of mold and/ or fungus gnat eggs. On some , I scraped way the top ‘soil’ and misted with a bleach solution and also fungus gnat spray(pyrethrin). I took the plastic tops off for good and covered both trya 2 and 3 with leftover tulle material. Tray 3 was planted on Saturday and I’m hoping I’ve caught it in time before any mold/gnat beasties grow.
I am seriously considering a couple of things:
1) pre-treating seeds with root tone F
2) Using the Landspro method for starting seeds(vermiculite/baggy)
I also got lazy and didn’t pretreat w/ peroxide dip, but if I do I’ll then follow steps 1 and 2.
Tray 2 is going on 11 days with poor germination; I might exhume and follow steps 1 and 2.
I’m setting up a fan.

[Rebecca]

I stopped using the "jiffy pellets" for my daylily seeds last year. Went to potting all of a cross into one mum pot filled with potting mix. I thoroughly water the pots of mix, then plant the seeds (after a quick soak in peroxide solution and 24 to 36 hours soak in distilled water). I place the potted seeds under the lights and walk away! I do not cover the pots with anything, the lights are positioned a couple of inches above the top of the pots, and since I can never get on a schedule to turn the lights on and off at a regular time, I just leave them on 24/7.

If and when fungus gnats or other no-see-ums get to be a problem, I give everything a does of Bayer 3 in 1. Kills the bugs, fungus and feeds the seedlings all in one shot.

As soon as I can get around to it, I have 20 - 25 hosts seedlings that will be pricked out of a community pot and transplanted into "jiffy pots". Their first watering will be with the Bayer 3 in 1, maybe. I'm using the "Jiffy Pellets" for the simple reason that I have a starter tray of them available, complete with the dome cover and the Hosta's will benefit from the closed environment. When the seedlings are finally big enough for 6-inch pots they will be moved. The netting will be partially removed during the process, and they will all go outside in a protected area to harden off and grow up to a salable size. I have a few extra pellets I plan to use for starting some other seeds I hope to get planted this season, of course, just where I plan on putting all of these plants is another topic altogether!

BTW, pre-treating the seeds with a rooting hormone won't work! Tried it!

Rinse the seeds in peroxide, soak the seeds in distilled water for 24 to 36 hours, plant them no deeper than twice the diameter of the seeds. Do not cover. Mist as needed until green shoots appear. If you thoroughly water the soil, pellets or whatever before you plant, you should only have to mist the seed to settle them in and then just leave them alone!

You will notice I said to soak the seeds for 24 to 36 hours, not necessarily to pre-sprout them. If the radical is showing after the soak period, great, if not, it will erupt in the mix. If you have strong, viable seeds, you should have full germination within a week. Do the old "pinch test" before you soak the seeds and again after the soak. Bad seeds will burst under pressure, good seeds will still feel very firm and solid.

You can kill a seed by doing too much to it and for it!

Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

Still bummed over trays 2 & 3. I've moved 17 of 72 out of tray 2(planted 1/22) with about 7-9 currently germinating but many others remain ungerminated. Tray 3(1/29) is virtually ungerminated[7 out of 72 have been moved out; maybe 5 are currently germinating]. I've been going nuts --first trying to water them from below by removing the plastic insert along with the individual pellets and pouring in water and then putting the insert back in. Then I'd notice either the tops were saturated or dry and I turned on the fan. Then I'd notice all the tops were dry (duh) and go in and water the tops(I have a plastic syringe that helps with the aim and quantity of water). In fact just last night I watered tops and today they were all dry so I bottom soaked but it didn't go to the tops on all of them so I top watered and now I have the fan on them. Do you see a cycle here ?! Any wonder why I'm driving myself nuts ! I did chcek on some ungerminated seed and some are actually still hard; some were so-so to start with and I'm skeptical of a couple of sellers. I know that the ones from another seller do take awhile but they usually come around(that one seed that seemed OK was one from that seller). I no longer have FUN-gus gnats but am ever vigilent for mold--hence the fan. I don't run the fan while I'm sleeping but run it before going to work and after coming home. I'm not using the tray lids.
I have no idea why I'm writing all of this other than it's just therapeutic ! I have so many more seeds to plant but refuse to until I get trays 2&3 under control ! :D <--that's my crazy lady grin!

[Rebecca]

Kiddo,

You will definitely make yourself nuts if you don't just STOP!

Soak the peat pellets every few days, it doesn't matter that the tops appear to be drying out, the radicle and later roots will seek out the moisture. If you want to you can spray the tops with a fine mist. Quit poking around and let the seeds do their thing. If they good, great, if they don't, well, all I can tell you is DON'T USE THE PEAT PELLETS EVERY AGAIN! Not for the daylilies anyway.

Find yourself a bunch of 6-inch mum pots or other containers of similar size - cut holes in the bottom if you need to. Fill them with a good potting mix, thoroughly wet them down and then let them drain for 30 minutes or so (you can fill out pot labels while you wait), then plant the rest of your seeds. If the seeds have been dried, soak them in plain distilled water for 24 hours first. Position all the seeds from one cross on the top of the mix, then, using your index finger, push them into the mix until your finger tip touches the mix. Insert the pot tag and then, with a spray bottle set on mist, spritz the heck out of the media - this will settle the seeds in. Place under the lights and LEAVE THEM ALONE! If you have waterproof trays you can set the seeded pots in, use them. When the mix has begun to dry out (several days) fill the tray with water (warm if possible), come back in 30 minutes and drain off any water left standing. If the seeds are viable they will sprout in 7 to 10 days, maybe quicker, maybe longer. Continue to bottom water even after the seeds have sprouted and the seedlings are growing.

You really need to stop fussing over them. You will end up doing more harm than good in the long run.

If you still have peat pellets to use, use them for OTHER SEEDS, or for rooting cuttings. They really work very well for cuttings since cuttings don't mind sitting in water, or in this case really saturated "soil".

I used my left over peat pellets to transplant most of my teeny tiny Hosta seedlings into and they are doing fine. I had left the dome off until just the other day, the tops were getting dry, but there was still plenty of moisture in the lower portions of the pellets, so I put the dome on and moisture condensates on it and did what it was meant to do. Most of these Hosta seedlings now have two leaves each and some are even getting a third leaf!

By-the-way, when I did use the peat pellets for starting daylily seeds, I used the lids, setting them at an angle for air circulation, and left them on until the seedling leaves started to touch the top. Then I raised it up with clothes pins for a couple of days before removing them completely.

I use the mum pots now for the simple reason that I don't have to disturb the seedlings until they get really crowded and even that only happens if I have more than 5 or 6 seeds in a pot. Last year most of the community pots were taken outside to harden off before I even had to think about separating any of them. Even then, I only moved on the ones that weren't going into the seedling bed. The seedlings that were moved on went into 1-gallon pots. The few I kept are still in those 1-gallon pots. The rest of them, along with several extra seedlings from the community pots were shipped out.

Don't make me have to come down there!


Rebecca

[Dazed_Lily]

:D Thanks I needed that !

[Rebecca]

You're welcome!

Tomorrow I will either start getting my seeds potted up or, when I go to feed the kitties, I'll re-do their shelter and get plastic on all sides. Time to get ready for the Spring rains you know! Heck, I might even do both!

On the Toad Lily thread or was that the Bare-root daylies. . . anyway, all my WM has is bagged Clematis, none of which are any I even want! But get this, the bags. . . . are paper and don't appear to have plastic liners, but I'm not about to open one to find out, I'll wait until someone else does! You know they will!



Rebecca
Feral Cat Caregiver and Daylily Nut!

[Dazed_Lily]

That would be me--the bag opener ! I'm also the hole poker in those sopping wet bags of Expert potting soil. --LOL!