cutting lengths

[shepp]

I had a visitor to my nursery last weekend while i was doing cuttings.and they were surprised at the size of cuttings i was using.
when i do cuttings i try to make the longest and largest cutting that i can for the majority, a few will be what i refer to as small but yet usable, healthy and not wastefull.
i will explain useing a blue rug juniper for example.
i will select a branch that has side stems of at least 6 inches and longer and tear them from the main leader leaving a heal on each cutting.i will trim the tail off of the cutting so its not interfereing with soaking and sticking them in the sand.and strip some of the needle's from the stem. also the majority of the stem is 1/8 diameter and larger.
what i am finding out is the larger the cutting the faster it roots and since the cutting IS larger and rooted and now its time to pot them i have more pruning of branch's to do and a shrub that will expand and be ready for market as a #1 plant sooner.
i dont have the technical jargon for doing it this way. the plant has more available carbohydrates in a larger cutting.
some of the the longest cuttings i will tip prune at the time of sticking them also . and/or in a few weeks when rooting has started.
the arborvitae's i have done this winter were from stock plants purchased just for doing cuttings.
a two gallon pot has yeilded around 300+ cuttings taking the largest cuttings i could .the woodwardii arbs rooted in 2 weeks. not all shrubs i am doing are rooting that fast (i wish). some take longer.
all of the cuttings i have done this winter will be transplanted as soon as the ground can be worked in the spring and field grown to finished size and caliper for a 3 gallon container and/or B&B .hopefully all sold in the field to one buyer and they do the digging.
this is how i do cuttings .i hope it gives others a different perspective that tip cuttings arent the only way ,and that this is just another mans ways .not neccesarily the right way.just the best for me!stem size 1/8th and up,stem cutting length at least 6 inches. thats it in a nutshell.

[Ann B.]

Shepp,

By now, you know me, and I do mostly tropicals, subtropicals and houseplants.

When I do a cutting of a hibiscus, I tend to make the cuttings longer, and I tend to keep the mother plant more in part shade than full sun so that the branches will grow longer and bigger before I take a cutting.

But with vines... Like Passiflora and Mandevilla, that is different.... Vines grow so very fast that I do not worry about the size of the cuttings, just as long as there is one node in the soil and one leaf node above it.

When it comes to azaleas, etc, I do the same... I prefer to keep them small and short... It gets so very hot here, and so very humid. I think that makes some difference, but I am not sure.

To be quite honest, I haven't done the Junipers or other evergreens, but the Emerald Green Arborvatae( spell?), I have seen before and it is absolutely gorgeous...

I still don't have a mist system with the coarse sand for that is not easy to come by here... All of our sand is very fine, like sugar or salt, and very white unless it is builder's sand which has a reddish tint, but is still very fine in texture.

Do you think that perhaps when your camera is repaired that you could give us a picture of your mist setup with the coarse sand so that those of us down south will know what coarse sand really is?

Thanks!

[OhioYardman]

Hey Shepp...good post. Question: If you do a 6" cutting, what kind of container do you root them in? I foget if you use a standard flat (about 2" deep), or another container.
Thanks, Leo

[shepp]

hi Leo ,
i dont use flats in the sand beds.i dont like them .
i can get them! they arent cheap! ---(heavy deep flats)
one reason why i dont use them is the roots go right down thru the flat. and when i removed a flat some plants were pulled down thru the flat and others skinned up the roots.
i prefer to do my own root pruning. without the flats i can undercut what i want out of the bed at a time .if i only have time to pot ten ,then i just do ten.etc.etc.
the rooting that occurs in my cutting beds on bottom heat will only go as deep as the sand.and grow out and across the Greenhouse flooring fabric that i use to contain the sand stapled to 2x4's sitting on the heated Greenhouse benches.
\\\-----you can also use weed barrier fabric----///
build the 4 inch deep frame to your size spec's staple the fabric place on the bench and fill frame with sand.or other medium you prefer.
you may have been confused with my using flats for plugs trays and transplanting those starts to root tutor flats by summit plastics.
otherwise i dont use them in the beds. some propagators do rooting directly in root tutors.i dont ,i have to maximize, i dont have room.AGAIN this is my way of doing it right wrong or indifferent.
and you are welcome to stop by again sometime.
----
Ann
funny you mention the camera i just shipped it tonite after work to get re repaired ,it came back worse than i sent it.
i miss it.
ARBORVITAE

[jimlang]

Lowe's has sand in the dept with the concrete and cement mixes that looks ok -- its expensive if you need a big quantity -- but for a few flats it's ok. I suspect that it is purchased nationally and the same all over but don't know for sure. Do not use the play sand this is builder's sand and much courser. In areas like Ohio we are very fortunate to have lots of sand and gravel places and can get it by the pick-up load or even have a dump truck load delivered. The Lowe's tip is for those who need just a little or just want to experiment.

[Gene]

Shepp
I propagate most of my cuttings in 606 or should a I say 6 packs some times I'll place cuttings in 4 packs. I use half peat and half coarse sand.Your right sometimes the roots grow threw the bottum and when you go to pull them out you strip them off.I'm sure this affects the plants . I think it would save me time trying to get the plants out of the 6 packs but wonder if it'll have affect on the roots not having no dirt around them I'll have to be carefull with packing the dirt around them in there new pots. I would like to try it out this spring like you do.
I to take 4 to 6 inch cuttings of leyland cypress and seems the the longer they are the faster they root .

[Ann B.]

Actually, Shepp and All!

I have done some thinking about this, and wondered if everyone wanted to chip in and discuss what plants they grow from cuttings that are typically 6-8 inches or longer and pruning the tips after they root and new growth begins.

I will start with just a few...

Hibiscus - 10 to 12 inches
Clerodendron - 10 to 12 inches
Crepe Myrtle - 8 to 10 inches
Cassia - 10 to 12 inches
Thunbergia Grandiflora - 10 to 12 inches
Thunbergia Ugandense - 10 to 12 inches
Yellow and Pink Shrimp plant - 10 to 12 inches
Cardinal flower - 10 to 12 inches
Willows (all kinds ) - 10 to 12 inches
Callicarpa - 10 to 12 inches

In fact, as I recall very few cuttings that I take are smaller than 10 to 12 inches...

Let me think, oh, yes!

Roses are usually 6 to 8 inches as well as the smaller Thunbergia vines.

The reasons I make the roses smaller is so that I can put a plastic bag over them for the greenhouse effect, and I continue to put 3-4 in a trade size gallong pot for the sake of space...

Anyone else want to share while I take inventory and think of others...

I haven't done a lot of evergreens, but I am wanting to try this curly privet that I simply adore! It grows so very slowly, though. If I want anymore, though, I will have to propagate for they are not easy to find on the market and can be a bit pricey.

[Ann B.]

If you want...

Just list the plants that you propagate from shorter cuttings, such as:

Begonia
Mums
Petunia

and why!

This is a question I get a lot in email, so it is a great discussion to have...

Thanks, Shepp!


:D :p :cool: :)

[Tom]

I think cutting length is determined more by the distance between buds or nodes than the personal preference of the propagator.

When I made a bunch of fig cuttings the other day, the directions I got from one of the Univ. Sites was to make tip cuttings that included all of the new growth and a small amount of old growth. Well, that made some of the cuttings 3" long and othere 8" long.

The same thing applies to grapes, hydrangea, and chinese snowball. Sometimes those cuttings will be 10" long, just to get at least 2 nodes below the surface.

Boxwood grows slowly, and has many possible nodes to choose, kinda like the arbs.

Loripetilum, legustrum, and budlea don't seem to care how you cut them, they just want to grow! But still, the distance between the leaf nodes is more a factor that what I like.

[OhioYardman]

Here's "a-noder" question...little plant humor!

I understand that you think the number of nodes is more relevaent than the total inches when making a hardwood cutting. Would it be fair to say you put a Minimum of two nodes beneath the surface ?
Thanks

[Tom]

My personal preference, in most cases is 2 nodes below the surface. That way it has a chance to develop roots if its shallow rooted, or if it is deep rooted. In some cases, like with grapes and sometimes hydrangea, I get roots at both.

With the Figs that I just stuck, it's sorta hard to tell were they are, or would be. I just cut about 1/4" below the previous years growth, and stick the whold tip in the soil about 2 inches. I don't know if thats gonna work, it's my first try. But if it does, I'll have way more than I need.

[shepp]

hi tom .
having never done grapes ,figs, and hydrangias. i cant say.
when making heal or mallet cuttings they are at the nodes on my junipers and arbs.
only when i use a tip cutting do i look for nodes.
are hydrangias good rooters. and will they do well on bottom heat with hardwood cuttings? or is that one best left for the mist bed in the summer/fall? cutting lengths are random? i gotta learn hydrangias.
i ask because most cut them down to the ground in the fall or spring.
thanks shepp

[shepp]

it is important to have ,how do i say this, stem length above the nodes is important so the plant has reserves to draw from for rooting.(on most shrubs).
the biggest reason for rooting the longer cutting is the shrub gets to a saleable size sooner.
pruning will take place while you are growing them on to a #1 size. so if you have more growth to trim you gain on the fullness of the plant.
irregardless if you dont have a healthy pruned root system nothing above ground matters. the root system wont carry it.
ps . some cuttings are only stuck in the medium that you use anywhere from a half an inch to one inch in depth.
grapes the nodes are much farther apart.

[Tom]

I have done both dormant and new growth cuttings, and both seem to take root fairly easily.

About now, through Feb they should do well with tip cuttings, 3-4 nodes. Actually the middle of the stalk, with 3 nodes usually will root OK. I don't know if it's essential, but I usually dip them in rootone, or something just to give them an edge. I've seen them bloom the first summer on the new growth. They will produce a lot of roots, and need room to expand. They also need some assistance the first year in the ground with additional water until they get well established.

Summertime is really easy. I take them in late June or July, strip all but the top few leaves, and punch the bottom couple of leaf nodes in regular potting soil. I don't have a mist system, so I just go by with the hose end on mist a couple of times a day for the first week or two. Nearly all of them root.

If you are doing the blue mop heads, your new ones will probably come out pink until you can lower the Ph for them, then they will turn blue.

[shepp]

hi tom
thanks for that info.
i think its time for me to bone up on all i can regarding hydrangias.
these will be a 2004 project.
i will have to start with the purchase of plugs/cuttings etc from named varieties.since i am hydrangeless right now. just a nuther pun .again thanks shepp zone 5/6 .
its a windy blizzard tonite.so far 1/2 inch per hour.dry blowing drifting type.

[marguerite]

Do you know the name of your curly privet and remember the source where you found it, Ann? This has become my favorite plant at the present time, due to its usefulness as a fast-growing utility plant in the garden and its wonderful aromas when blooming. I have variegated and regular ordinary privet. Like the boxwoods, which I want to get exemplars of all the different ones I can find, I would like to locate and add one of those to my collection of mother plants. Stand alone privets that are trimmed to tree form also make a beautiful specimen plant when they are in bloom. The best part is the the perfume. I plan to raid the next season's blooms for potpourri!

I was pleased to find that the viburnum odorissimum that I took cuttings from and stuck about two oro three weeks ago have rooted and are sending out new growth. I got sick in the middle of this project and have a pot of hardwood cuttings stuck in water, they are also very green and healthy looking and look like they may also be continuing up some new growth. Has anyone ever rooted hardwood cuttings in water? If not, this seems like a pretty good candidate! My intention was to stick them but it was so muddy and I just couldn't stay out in that part of the garden to get them in the ground. It will be interesting to see what happens. This is such a beautiful plant, it is almost variegated, with the glossy green leaves and some of them shade to chartreuse, yellow and a little copper color. I believe I may get blooms on my mother plant this spring, it has grown about three feet in the full sun position I have it in.

[jimlang]

marguerite


I am about convienced only young people should grow boxwood -- the rest of us don't have time -- they are S L O W!

[Ann B.]

Marguerite,

I believe that the botanical name for my curly leaf privet is Curly Leaf Ligustrum japonicum 'Rotundifolium', but there may be more than one form of Curly Leaf Privet.

It is not at all like the privet hedge. It grows very slowly, and it only has a few blooms which do not have as much fagrance as the more common privet hedge.

The leaves on the Curly Leaf Privet are thicker, about 2 inches long and have a waxier coating. This evergreen shrub only gets to be about 3-5' tall. Mine is 5' tall, and I have had it for many, many years. I probably bought it at the old Walmart since there were not very many stores here at the time.

I don't recall seeing it in the retail stores since then.

Here is a closeup of the leaves:

http://www.landspro.com/privetcurl2.JPG


Here is a view of the privets behind my next door neighbor's house. His are nicely trimmed so that he can mow his ditch without hitting his head... Mine are not pruned at this time and are in bad need of it.

These privets are covered with small white, extremely fragrant blooms in the spring. In the fall, they are loaded with black berries that the birds enjoy. My pots are filled with seedlings and so are my beds.

I only wish you lived closer, you could have as many as you wanted...

http://www.landspro.com/privet_hedge.JPG

These are somewhere between 20-30 foot tall, and there is a row of them that is approximately 2,000 feet long. Actually, I would love to have them cut down, but I wouldn't have a break from the north wind, AND they are not on my property.

The dormant trees inside the fence are my 'baby' pecan trees (inside my yard). The one toward the back has small, hard pecans that are very rich and oily. It was a seedling that I couldn't bear to cut down.


As to your sweet viburnum, I have never heard of them rooting in water, but they are supposed to root easily using traditional methods.

In fact, I cannot personally think of any 'hardwoods' that root in water, but I have seen people successfully root some semi-hardwoods in water.

If they don't root, then you might want to consider cutting off some of the lower end of the branches and rooting them when you are feeling better. They may hold up until then.

Please let us know!