Linda's Greenhouse Pictures

[Ann B.]

Linda sent me pictures of her newly acquired lean to greenhouse that she bought for a bargain price. I will let her tell us more about it after I post the pictures here.



http://www.landspro.com/linda1.jpg



http://www.landspro.com/linda2.jpg



http://www.landspro.com/linda3.jpg

This is very similar to what I have always wanted adjacent to the patio side of my home.

NICE, Linda!

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks for posting these pictures Ann! To explain about how I was able to buy this at such an unbelievable price and state that these pictures are when it was set up at the previous owner's property, I'll do a copy and paste from emails I sent friends.

Klaus (my husband) went to give an estimate for a job. He's started his own handyman business. This elderly couple bought a home with an enclosed pool. The enclosure was a Four Seasons, Systems 4 Greenhouse. Double paned, tempered glass, with the only openings being 3 sliding glass doors. With all that water in the pool and no windows to open, it got too hot and humid in there. They had the greenhouse taken down and a new unit put up where all the glass panels have sliding windows. Anyway, the man told Klaus that he wanted to sell the greenhouse for JUST $500!!! Just the materials cost around $12,000!!! The man said that it was around the size of 22' X 40'!!! All the walls and roof are double paned, tempered glass!!! I'VE GOT $350 LEFT FROM MY FATHER'S ESTATE that I will use and Klaus is going to barter with the man for work he needs him to do!!! ISN'T THAT FABULOUS?!!! This greenhouse needs a solid base to attach it to, so Klaus is going to put it on concrete pillars (since the ground isn't level where it will be built), which will be sunk about 2' in the ground. Klaus will build a wood base with decking all around the outside of the greenhouse! It will be built beside my 30' X 50' veggie garden, outside the fence. We've already transported all the framing and all glass panels. Still need to go get the angled windows for the end walls and sliding glass doors and screens. There's around 328 glass panels to wash! We have to replace all seals around the windows and frames and replace all sheet metal screws.

Now all I have to figure out is how to get the money for the foundation! LOL Hubby figured that to cost about $2,000. In the meantime, I'm going to start my own little nursery with plants I have in my yard, in abundance, and plant cuttings and seeds I can gather from people I know. Wish me luck! Enjoy the pictures!

[goldeneagle]

Linda -

Boy you have a deal and a half there - that greenhouse is very nice !!

Bet it will look just as great on your place - if not better -with that decking all around it !!!!

Good luck in the business venture -

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks Beth! I'm REALLY excited about getting it up and functioning! I think it will take me quite a while before I will put ALL of it to good use! LOL The redwood or cedar decking will also have to be my flooring inside, so I will have to figure out what to put down to keep insects and varmits out, in case the varmits can chew holes right through the flooring! Something like wire mesh and insulation under the flooring. Have to consider the problem of keeping heat in and the cold out too! All in due time. I just may have to work on the floor for a while, until I can have work tables! LOL Perhaps more people on these message boards will have some suggestions for me. Sure hope so!

[goldeneagle]

Linda -

I know what you mean - about rodents eating thru floors - My Dad (rest his soul) years back he built a closed in porch for Mom - and had a crawlspace of only inches - so no way he could get under the flooring - but he tore it down and started over - several rats had chewed their way into that porch and scared the daylights out of Mom ;) - so Dad got new lumber and then he treated it with a substance that repelled animals, rodent and Birds - he mixed this stuff and saturated the wood - then he rebuilt Moms porch - even better than before and he put solid wall around the base so nothing could get under it again - and then on the flooring he treated the inside wood with that mixture and then he put linoleum down so she would feel safer - and that porch was still standing last time I saw it - (about 2 yrs ago) -

Now I was looking thru some of my supply catalogs and found some repellent - about the same as what Dad used - its called RO-PEL Animal, Rodent & Bird Repellent -- you might want to visit :

www.groworganic.com

they carry it - or you might even find something better - to me it is a little expensive but it sounds like it is worth it - 1 quart - cost $15.95 - but one gallon($49.95) treats 1000 - 4000 square feet depending on surface conditions and the porosity of items treated -

it repels - birds, cats, dogs, mice, rats, deer, gophers, horses, rabbits, raccons, skunks and most other animals -
(that is what the catalog says)

But you can't use on certain crops - Now I have not tried this - but I really dont have a porch or deck or anything right now - that I could use it own - BUT - one of these days I will - when I can afford to build my own greenhouse -

I hope this helped - and still maybe another member might have a better suggestion -

Take Care -

[Peoplepleaser]

I suppose I have to be careful of what I would saturate the wood with, in case it would give off fumes that would ruin any plants closed inside the greenhouse. I went to the site you suggeted that has the RO-PEL and read the information. Yes, it certainly is expensive when considering how much flooring there will be. However, I also noticed that you can use it on seeds and bulbs before planting them. Wonder how long the smell lasts, if I would have to treat bulbs every year. That's interesting, as gophers steal the most seeds and bulbs around here that I know of. Whole plants are pulled underground too! In fact, I'm pretty sure it was a gopher that pulled under my 2 year old beautiful Solomon's Seal plant I had in my front yard! Just left me a hole, leading down to tunnels under my garden! I was told at the nursery not to plant tulips in the ground because the gophers will get them. They need to be planted in patio planters, or enclosed in a fine wire mesh. Plastic baskets, like strawberries come in don't always stop them either! We have skunks here too! I've had a run-in with one in my veggie garden 4 years ago, at 11:45 pm! That little "stinker" sprayed both our dogs and myself, when I got in-between our german shepard and the skunk to keep our german shepard from attacking the skunk again, then trotted just as you please out of my veggie garden, down the inside of our backyard wire fence, hopped up onto our walkway beside the house and ducked under our gate! I don't have the nerve to kill the wildlife, so I've got to figure out some barriers to keep them away. Thanks for sharing your ideas with me!

[goldeneagle]

Linda -

No problem for ideas - just glad you checked out the site - see I overlooked that about the seeds and bulbs - I noticed it about the special plants - so hey we both learned something today -

Now about that skunk - hope you had plenty of tomato juice around - it helps with that smell ;) an old friend told me about that after I had a run in with a stinking varmint - but never did again - I see them and I run the other way - ha ha :D

Well good luck -

Till next time -

[Peoplepleaser]

A tip from my German Mother-in-law that works! After pouring tomato juice on the dogs and rubbing it in real good, follow up with a good rinse, then lathering them down with any regular hair shampoo, rinse, then use any cheap hair conditioner or hair rinse and rinse for the last time. Worked Great!

[goldeneagle]

Linda -

Hey thanks for that tip about using shampoo and creme rinse after the tomato treatment on dogs - my little mixed terrier (going on 13 of our years) so he is really an old man - but he thinks he is still master of the yard - ha ha

He will chase anything that he dont recognise - opossums, raccoons, even some cats (not our own) he protects our kitties - he thinks he is the daddy - well at lease he adopted them - and they(the kitties) play with Beggar and he plays back until he gets tired and then he lets them know and then they lay down and sleep together - all of them are spoiled rotten (even him) but they are like kids to me -

Anyway - take care

[marguerite]

If you get some carpet center cores, heavy cardboard or masonite forms, from a carpet store and use rebar inside them for strengthening, which are less than $1 each to cast your pillars, made of Sakcrete in a roller from Home Depot, on the weekends, you should be able to come in WAY UNDER $2000 for the concrete piers. You just have to cut them (the carpet rolls) to finished size, oil the inside with vegetable oil or dishwashing soap, and pour the concrete. Any carpet store would be pleased for you to haul them off.

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks for the compliments about my greenhouse! It certainly is a dream come true! Now if only I could get the money together to get the foundation built! After talking to a man here that deals in Four Season's greenhouses, we are changing our original plans of the cedar or redwood decking/flooring to block, like in the picture. Then I will have a gravel floor. Too much humidity in the greenhouse for that wood flooring to last very long! He told us that in only about 5 years, that wood flooring would be rotting and we would have to take the WHOLE greenhouse down to replace the flooring, then put it back up! Oh my word!!! He also told us that one of the cheapest ways to heat that greenhouse would be to snake copper tubing back and forth under that gravel floor and pump hot water through it. Now, to figure out where that hot water will come from and how it's going to be heated! May have to be a separate unit that sits outside the greenhouse, or even inside the greenhouse? Haven't thought about how that one will work yet. Our son-in-law, in New Mexico, is a stone and brick mason. He will come up here next spring to lay the block foundation for me! Then there's something like 328 panels of glass I have to wash!!! I can't wait until it's finished!!!

Thanks for your ideas on making the cement pillars! That makes a lot of sense! This past summer my husband figured out how to make cement fence posts, using BIG plastic pipes, cutting them in half vertically, banding them together with metal strips, drilling holes down the verticle lines all the way through and inserting rebar strips through the holes. He made up cement platforms where the posts would be poured on top of them, where the posts would be sitting. Then he mixed up the cement, adding brown dye and pouring it into the verticle pipes! When he opened up those pipes, each half falling to the sides, the posts looked just like real wood fence posts! These plastic post forms will be able to be used numerous times! And these posts won't rot, like the ones previous owners used for fencing and only lasted 6 years, that we had to take out about 400' of the real wood posts this past summer! Also the three cross pieces from each 8'section! We're using those wood posts for firewood this year! After the cement posts were good and cured, he attached some kind of brackets to them so the cross pieces of fence could be attached to them! Very clever! That's right along the same lines of what you suggested on how to get the forms for free from carpet places, to use for the pillars under the foundation of my greenhouse! Great minds think alike!

[marguerite]

Get yourself a brand new good quality hot water heater for about $130 and hook your copper tubing up to that and figure out how to recirculate it back for reheating, like putting together a garden fountain system, then just crank Betsy up. You can get the costs on it, by check to see what kind of energy your house hot water heater uses. Should be "for cheap", you might even be able to put a thermostat somewhere in the loop there. That's too scientific for my brain.

The ideas for my concrete poles comes from being a life long crafter and as a divorcee for most of my adult life raising kids by myself, necessity was the mother of invention. We love junk in the first place and can turn it into some kind of "art" and figure out how to do a make do to fit almost any kind of situation. Do you remember McIver on TV? Well, we weren't quite that creative! But close.

Tacky but proud, one year we were living in an apartment and didn't have a lot of room, plus we were too broke to buy a Christmas tree, so we picked up a couple armloads of trimmings from the Christmas tree lot and wired them to a broomstick attached to the wall. Although it was only half a Christmas tree, you obviously couldn't walk around it, it was "cute"! Looked like the real McCoy from the front.

Later, don't get me started! LOL By the way my nephthytis plant you identified with your trusty book is the sygonium pelargonium or whatever. It is called the Arrowhead Vine. You've really learned how to work that book!

[jimlang]

Can someone finish the idea about the water heaters. This just might be the way for me to go with my two 6'x8' green houses. I have fround small 110 volt water heater for less than $100. Thinking I could do one in each house with copper pipes running back and forth under the benches. Have used electric heaters but they only last for about 1 1/2 seasons.

[marguerite]

I'm the idea person, have to have my "technician crew" come through and do the nitty gritty! I also have 16 hours of electronics which qualifies me, in my case, to change a light bulb, too many years as a blonde! And a mom. LOL

The outflow is simple, you just get the hot water heater going and turn on the faucet to which you would connect a fitting to secure one end of your copper tubing, it is the recirculating part that I couldn't figure out, you want to hook it up to come back in to your cold water feed, of course, but does it "need to be cold" going back in for proper operation of the hot water heat. There would be no limit on the amount of tubing that you can run every which way as far as I can see. Would you need a reservoir of some kind to cool off the water before it going back into the hot water heater? If so, an above ground container then could be releasing air heat to maintain your ambient air temperature in the greenhouse. If you are going to that, it would make sense that you would want to work in a timer or a thermostat somewhere there in the loop!

I'm also trying to design a water saving system with about 5 - 55 gallon drums connected together and a small pump to uplift it to the intake drum. This would be a gravity system, but thinking about it this much is giving me a headache.
You can tell you have to make some pretty good measurements and fine-tuning to get it working right, but I don't see why you would need a master's degree in hydraulics to figure it out.
Can somebody check out some hot water heater mfg. sites, there may be a few clues there!

[Peoplepleaser]

You've got some really great ideas here Marguerite! Wouldn't a separate water holding tank, that sits above ground work for the cooling off tank? There would be a thermostat in the hot water tank for the temp you want the hot water to be, then it's pumped through the copper tubing to heat the greenhouse, and from there it would be pumped into the holding tank to cool off a bit, before being pumped back into the hot water heater. No, let's see..... We still need a step in here for fresh water to be pumped into either the holding tank or the hot water heater. Perhaps fresh water should be pumped into the holding tank, which would be heated up a bit from the returning circulating hot water before going back into the hot water heater, which would save costs on having to heat up completely cold water if the fresh water was to be pumped directly into the hot water heater. Does that all make sense, or did I take you in circles, like the circulating water? LOL We get all our water from a well, so I was trying to figure out that circulating process, from well to house with our faucet that we have directly off a "T" piping that goes directly from the well, which I hook a hose to to water part of my gardens. Anyway, you wouldn't need a separate thermostat in the copper tubing, since you have it in the hot water heater! I'm sure this idea needs more fine tuning, but just some suggestions off the top of my head, which gives us more to think about! Perhaps by the time I'm ready to get this greenhouse put all together, we will have it all worked out!

[marguerite]

We need the guys in on this, Linda, we're going to confuse everybody. I'm thinking you could set it up pretty much as a closed system, just use the same water over and over, after all where would it go, and if you could, think of how much water it would save as opposed to one that is filling and refilling all day. Also you can save on energy costs by putting tepid water back into the intake so the heater doesn't have to work as hard to heat it once again to the thermostat setting.

but then when you heat and cool water you may have to deal with evaporation somewhere, so there should be some device to add additional water when you need it. My Earth Science days are long behind me, so I'm handing this over to Gene, Jim, Shepp and greater minds than mine! My experience with water heaters is of the Off/On variety. I will say adieu here and see what kind of developments the guys on here can come up with, with good cheap water heat.

Jim, my thinking is that one hot water heater might do it for both green houses of that size if they are close together, if you work out your tubing right, you would probably want to just bury a segment of the pipe underground to connect the two, no? You could provide ambient heat in the second greenhouse by just running a loop of pipe up into the air to act as a small heater, then back under the gravel. Would the water be running continuously or heating on a timed basis? Probably continuously for colder climates and on some kind of timer for us tropicales down here in the "Where's my Frost!" winter.

Don't forget to share your blueprint with us when you work out all the tech details!!!

[Peoplepleaser]

Yes, Marguerite, that's what I was trying to point out, when I mentioned that the returning water to the holding tank might cool off a bit there. Plus I mentioned that we would have to have some way to be able to add water when necessary, to the holding tank, as it doesn't seem like that same water would last forever. When fresh water was added to the holding tank, the existing returning hot water would heat up the fresh cold water in the holding tank a bit, therefore saving costs of having to heat up that fresh water. Sounds like you were understanding what points I was trying to get across and putting it into different words so it could be understood in a different way. We are thinking alike here! Anyone know a plumber?! LOL

[John M]

Jim, Marguerite, Linda

Recirculating the water from the hot water heater is easily done from the hot water side with return to the HW Htr. drain valve at the bottom of the tank. A small recirculating pump is put into this loop to circulate the water on demand (most likely thermostatically controlled.) (This type of recirculation is done for homes to provide whole-house instant hot water. You can do a google search for instant hot water recirculation pumps which also show installation diagrams; however, many pumps used for this purpose are low-flow pumps used just to circulate a small amt. of hot water to keep the HW pipes warm. ) You may need to use a circulation pump designed for a HW furnace systems. You may be able to contact a local Heating / A-C company and get a working circulation pump from a replaced HW furnace. They usually just junk this stuff -- who knows you may be able to get the old thermostat controls to go with it!

Good Luck!

JohnM

Note: You would always want to have the cold water supply hooked up as in a normal HW tank installation to keep the system filled with water; also every HW tank requires a working pressure relief valve and in some areas an expansion tank is required. Be Safe!!

[Peoplepleaser]

Wow John! Thanks for this useful information! I had forgotten about using that drain valve that comes off the bottom of the hot water heater. After all, it goes outside and I didn't see it! LOL Now I need to do a copy and paste of all of these last replies concerning this subject and email them to myself so I can print them out and save them for my husband, who will have to put this all together for me! Then when the time comes that we are able to build the foundation for my greenhouse, I'll have all these tips to get all the copper tubing into the gravel flooring and get the hot water heater system situated, before we put all that glass up! Thanks so much for all your expertise!!!

I just thought of something else! What about putting a few black 55 gallon drums in that copper tubing loop somewhere, so the hot water will also flow into those drums and you could use that heat from the water as bottom heat for rooting cuttings, by placing flat lids on top, that the trays of cuttings could sit on them? Those drums would also be creating and giving off more exposed heat! Am I getting too carried away here? Hey, there's A LOT of open space in my greenhouse, as you can tell by the pictures!
Linda

P.S. Now I'd like to figure out a way to save all this water that is flowing right down the middle of our back yard! We have 3 seasonal springs that overflow on our property, that creates 2 streams that flow diagonally down the middle of our yard. Actually only one stream flows down the middle of our fenced part of our yard. The other stream is outside of our fenced area. Not possible to dig a BIG pond in our yard! LOL Would be nice to be able to have a second holding tank, just for that water. Then I could use that to water everything in the greenhouse, for a while anyway. OK, one problem at a time! LOL

[Ron]

was reading the posts on hot water as heat . how about a pump from a swimming pool ? a little on the costly side but there made to be run constantly but not sure if they can take the heat . i know that alot of pools have heaters so it might not be a problem. also try going to www.radiantec.com and see if they might be able to help i have them sending info on floor heat for my new home that i am building.

[shepp]

use what is called cross thatch tygon 3/4 inch.
forget the swimming pool pump also
taco pumps makes the pump you are looking for.
its the same pump used on my outdoor woodburner.
heating and cooling dealers know of them.
if not pump is a little more than 1 hundred bucks my pump has run for 5 years so far.
shepp zone 5/6
http://www.hardyheater.com/


http://www.centralboiler.com/applications.php

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks Ron and Shepp for sharing your ideas here! I really appreciate your input!

Ron, I went to the radiantec web site you mentioned. Their diagram set up is what I'm considering in the floor of my greenhouse! Well, not having them do it, but the set up is very similar. Looks like a great idea!

Shepp: Thanks for your advice on using cross thatch tygon 3/4 inch! We have never heard of that, but will go to some plumbing supply stores and ask about it! Will also ask about the taco pump! Why not use copper tubing? Is it because of the price difference, or the amount of heat that each will give off? Interesting! I also went to go look at the sites you sent! Some valuable information there!

When I was telling my husband, who was an electrician for 25 years, about the whole set up that we have been talking about, he said that he knows what it is that I want in my greenhouse to heat it. He said that when he was growing up in New Jersey, they had radiant heat using hot water, and he helped his father put in a couple of units when they did home/apartment repairs. So I guess he's got the basics down!

[shepp]

it will react and destroy the copper.
use the cross thatch.
if you need a place to see it look at the plumbing on a pepsi /coke machine. that fills cups of pop.
and look up" this old house "i think they have reference to radient heating on there website.
just thought i would save you a headache down the road.
also lowes has it along with other suppliers of building materials.

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks Shepp for this information! When you mentioned not to use copper tubing in concrete, I was wondering what you were refering to. I went back to my post about changing our minds concerning the use of redwood/cedar decking and flooring, and changing to block. I left out a VERY important word that changes the meaning of what my inside flooring will be! I should have put in there that we were changing to block for the PERIMETER FOUNDATION, that all that glass will be sitting on! I will have gravel flooring, with the copper tubing snaking around under the gravel. Does that make more sense now? Sure hope I cleared that mistake up! I will also be having lots of weight rolling around that gravel floor with wheelbarrow, garden cart filled with dirt and supplies, plus a flat bed cart that I will load plants on to wheel out to my selling area. Can the cross thatch tygon hold up to that? I'll go see if I can find This Old House on the net now, and check out what they say about radiant heating. We have a Lowes about 45 miles south of us. It might be worth checking it out with them too. Thanks again!
Linda

[shepp]

i really think i would concrete the floor and slope it to channel the water to a drain.
and no i wouldnt use the tygon cross thatch under gravel. or copper. you would have holes in it before long.
i would say put the tubing ,copper or other in the benches if you use a gravel floor. it really doesnt take long for the gravel to start collecting potting dirt , and looking a mess. plus the high humidity when you hose it all down. the greenhouse you have was built as a living space.not a full production greenhouse.
of course i dont know your intentions.good luck either way.

[Peoplepleaser]

Thanks for your ideas here Shepp! This gives me more ideas and things to check in to and discuss. This sure helps to find out these things BEFORE the fact, instead of after! Thanks for the wish of good luck! I'm sure I'll need it, since I will have to be running this greenhouse and nursery business by myself! I'm working on dividing up plants that I have in my gardens, and digging up runners (volunteers) and getting them potted up. When I have a day where it isn't raining of course! LOL

[marguerite]

What kind of excuse is that, woman? Get them pots up under that patio and pot up a storm. Recently, it was TIME to do vegetable seeds, I wasn't ready of course, never am, so I got my bestest buddy Bodie next door to come over and haul me in a bag of potting soil from my driveway arrangements, laid down several layers of newspaper all over the living room floor (hardwood oak, blush blush) and got to potting away. Seeds are up, gardening seaon is saved, more small emergencies in store! Ya gotta be a tough cookie to make it big in this business, Linda! Make no excuses, take no prisoners!

Now I have about, on visual inspection, at least 200 madonna lilies to pot up into, I think I will put them into 4 inch 6 packs in flats, so I gotta capture my little high school buddy to drag me in some more dirt and start up again! Ann says to leave them in small pots until they are large enough to put into the garden. Would you believe that almost every seed from those pods I was saving appear to have sprouted?

[Peoplepleaser]

YES, MOTHER! You silly woman! I don't have enough of a cover over the patio! Besides, the pots and bag of dirt would be there, but the plants I have to dig up and divide are out in the rain! It wasn't raining today, so I HAD to get out in my veggie garden and weave more of my blackberry vines in and out of the wire fence! So I doned my leather gloves and fought with the vines attaching and entangling themselves to me and got most of them up off the ground and twined in and out of the fence. They are already starting to get buds on them! I've already dug up 15 volunteer plants and potted them up for sale. There's lots more of them that are coming up in the first section of my veggie garden! Put 4 pots and the garden fork out by my huge rhubarb plant so I can get it divided one of these days. So, I'm working on it, a little at a time! I'm trying!

You put that stuff on your oak hardwood floor?!!! Well, I guess it would be easier to clean up whatever got off the paper, than it would be on my carpeting! Besides, my husband would NEVER allow me to bring that stuff in the house!!!

It's already time for you to plant vegetable seeds?!! My word, I have at least another month before I can start on that! It's still too cold for them to be outside at night! I already have friends that want to buy lots of them from me! Plus, one lady I know, who owns a craft shop in town, has asked me to grow different kinds of gourds and she will buy all that I grow, that I don't want! A few months ago, I sold her all my dried birdhouse gourds that I didn't want, and she sold them in her craft shop within a month!

Of course I believe that almost all of those pods sprouted for you! Nothing about you surprises me! LOL Sounds like you have a lucky green thumb! I wish you the best in your garden ventures!!!

[marguerite]

Yes, I went ahead and planted starts for cole crops, I have some kale going, cabbage. and the rest of my pepper seed are on the top of the refrig for bottom heat or up and in front of a window to get strong daylight. Anything that we cannot get planted here by early April at the latest will burn up by June, so we have to do greens and beets and things like that during "the winter months". My seeds seem to be slow to size up, probably need to put in some grow lights which I'm always three weeks behind in everything, but I've made two makeshift cold frames next to the house under a little porch roof to harden these things off as they become large enough. We are having temps in the 60s with lows at night around 45, so all I have to worry about are two or three more days of really cold temps, but under plastic and mulched with shredded newsprint, they should be just fine until time to set them out in rows.
Due to several recent hospitalizations, I am having to do most everything near the front door area or drag an oxygen tank out to the back. Which dampens your enthusiasm for dirt daubing. And it is kind of wet back there also. I have lettuce growing in tupperware bins along the sidewalk. It's not a public area, just my little play area, so I just try to keep it basically neat. I will try to get some tomato seeds in the next week or so and start them in bins as well. Yes, that digging in muck is not much fun, is it? I get a new pair of rubber boots about twice a year, both for the sucking Texas mud sounds and the fire ants when it is hot. Sounds like you have a great start there on plants! For lettuce and greenery, about all you need is strong light, nutrients and plenty of water. The middle of March I will be planting purple hull peas and by the end of the month, it should be warm enough to set out most of my pepper plants with little cloches made from plastic milk jugs, and put these excellent potato plants out in the garden. Keeps me happy and out of trouble. It is so interesting to hear what gardeners in the other parts of the country have to contend with. Here ours is "beating the season" so we can grow what we want on the first spring day. I'll probably buy some six packs to set out too. I'll admit the living room floor is not my first choice for a potting bench! LOL I use paint throw cloths and plenty of newspaper. When I get a chance I stick several 3 gal pots of cuttings to propagate, up to 30 cuttings per pot. I have a bunch of brugsmansia and spirea ready to individually pot up right now, as well as "all them Madonna lilies" which will be a real challenge to bring as many of them to planting out size with Ann's instructions. Probably a good time to start a bunch of rose cuttings and camellias also. Seeds unfortunately are not my best thing! Basically a city woman, I've been lucky in finding a couple of 80 year old gardening buddies who know a lot of secrets and tips as mentors.